Mugo - carsten, pumilio, fischleinboden

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#1
I'm in Poland and went to visit a garden. They have Mugo with varieties I don't know much about. Probably the names I mentioned are local names at least some of them so in other countries could be named differently would be good if someone would know the Latin name..

Pumilio
20181230_122422.jpg
CARSTEN
20181230_122555.jpg
Fischleinboden
20181230_122006.jpg
 
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#2
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#3
Fischleinboden is a place in mountainous Italy if that helps at all.

Also if you are after some different Mugo cultivars a bit closer to home this place has a good selection.
https://www.jardineriakuka.com/modu...category=all&search_query=mugo&submit_search=

I have ordered from them in the past and can recommend them.
Thanks, ill take that into account. I typically don't like to order online because most of the times I can't select the exact one I want to buy .. Also in terms of prices, the Carsten I showed above is 30 euros.. Not bad
 
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#4
Could the Carsten one I showed have some potential? I think these trees grow very slow like 5cm per year.. According to what I read...
 

AlainK

Masterpiece
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#5
Never heard of the cultivar 'Carsten' before, but I found some info on Esveld's website. Surprising change of colour in winter:

http://www.esveld.nl/plant.php?plant=Pinus+mugo+'Carsten'

I prefer the trunk line and branch placement on this one than on 'Fischleinboden', and it could be spectacular in winter, that's the one I would choose.
 
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#6
Thank you Alain! very much appreciated.

I am planning to visit other garden center still this week before I come back to Spain. I did not buy it just yet because in the area where I live in Spain we have minimun temperatures of around 0 degrees celsius only some days per year aprox.... I think it would develop well still but not with the most optimal climate. So I will take a look at something else before I leave the country and then take final decision.

Thanks!
 
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#7
The carsten variety looks a lot like the more available 'Mops Gold' and 'Winter gold' cultivars. The winter gold does have 'carsten' added to it sometimes.
The fischleinboden (poorly translated: fishing wire bottom/ground) looks like a regular old mughus.

Here up north, our winters lack good freezing as well. We might get 10-20 days with frosty nights at most. But mugos planted in back yards, as well as in pots, seem to be fine with that.

I can recommend local scots pines. I know Italian scots pines tend to have smaller needles than the northern european ones, my guess is that that's the case for the entire Mediterranean area. If you treat them well, they will reward you by flushing twice a year.
 
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#8
Thank you,

is pinus sylvestris what you mean by scots pines? If so, sylvestris are well known and distributed around Spain
 
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#10
So the Mugo Carsten is at home. I try to keep the dormant period. We have temperatures from 0 to 12 ceslsius being last night - 3 even. I keep it witjought direct sun as it would be where is coming from, Poland.

I was checking branch structure and what could be the front and I have opted for the below being S sacrifice branch, 1 first branch, 2 second branch. B back branch, 3 third branch and the tree to continue in the arrow direction.
 

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#11
There's sunshine in Poland too ;-)
I believe mugo stay active through large parts of the winter and putting them in the shade might be a bad idea. If they can grow through snow in spring, then they must be active with subzero temperatures.

The wood looks pretty young near the trunk. I think that if you open it up a little to let in the sun, you'll see lots of buds forming the coming year.
I bought some mugos last spring and I did nothing more than just wiring. It budded so far back that in 2 years from now, I can reduce the branches back to 2-3cm from the trunk. Right now they're almost at 25cm's from the trunk. It's going to be worth the wait!

Good luck with this one!
 
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#12
There's sunshine in Poland too ;-)
I believe mugo stay active through large parts of the winter and putting them in the shade might be a bad idea. If they can grow through snow in spring, then they must be active with subzero temperatures.

The wood looks pretty young near the trunk. I think that if you open it up a little to let in the sun, you'll see lots of buds forming the coming year.
I bought some mugos last spring and I did nothing more than just wiring. It budded so far back that in 2 years from now, I can reduce the branches back to 2-3cm from the trunk. Right now they're almost at 25cm's from the trunk. It's going to be worth the wait!

Good luck with this one!
Thank you for commenting. I put it in the shadow to interrupt the minimum the dormant period after reading this from @Vance Wood

"POSITION: Full Sun, although full sun is not necessary in the winter. Shelter from the wind is preferable and if your temperatures are warm definitely not full sun in winter. The goal in winter storage is to keep the tree frozen and dormant. Too intense of sun exposure can cause the sap to rise and when the temperatures fall further the water in the sap can expand and blow out the cambium layer"

I also have a terrace with south orientation amd sun all day long where I could as well place it.. I have temperatures from 0 to 13 Celsius (32 to 55 F) at least for the remaining of the month..
 

Estonio

Yamadori
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#13
I've been thinking again the possible design. And I think I could remove 2 branches at the back hidden by the notebook which grow below the first branch. Then I would have 1, 2, 3 and (e) which would be one back branch. I would cut the 2 branches marked and continue the apex from the arrow. What do you think?

FB_IMG_1549752235982.jpg
 
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#14
Somebody once told me that it's best to look for the smallest believable tree. And I think that that approach can work here very well.
I think there's a decent tree in branches 1, 2 and 3. So if you cut above 3 and make 3 your new apex, you can keep the rest.
It looks like you haven't dug for the nebari yet, which makes it harder to start thinking about higher up the plant. Maybe it's inches below the soil line? Maybe then you'll have to cut back to 2 even.
 
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#15
Unless you are thinking about making a bonsai that is not much taller than branch one (1) You are going to be working a long time. If the tree were mine I would plant the tree on an angle where branch #1 becomes the new trunk and everything else is cut off. You can then regrow everything off of branch #1 and place the branches accordingly. Take a look at the accompaning media a link from High Desert Bonsai. You may see what I see and you may not but is deserves a look because a really good tree exists in the tree if it is reduced down another degree. The trouble with the majority of Mugo bonsai is not the tree but the artists that don't have a clue or the courage to do what is necessary.

 
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#16
I know the trunk is still very thin and there will be many years ahead of prebonsai phase. But I'm looking for a 40cm aprox. bonsai in the future. If I cut off everything but 1st branch, that will not happen... Or it will take way longer to get that dimension I would assume..
 
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#17
Holy shit man----post your measurements in inches so us fools on the other side of the pond can understand it. And why wont that happen when you eliminate the unwanted growth and allow the good stuff to grow to 40cm? If you think that wont happen you need to start with a larger tree. I know it will happen but you seem to know what you are doing?
 
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#18
Holy shit man----post your measurements in inches so us fools on the other side of the pond can understand it. And why wont that happen when you eliminate the unwanted growth and allow the good stuff to grow to 40cm? If you think that wont happen you need to start with a larger tree. I know it will happen but you seem to know what you are doing?
Excuse me, 16 inches. My assumption is that the more aereal part you cut off the less roots needed to keep the remaining part, less sap flow and less development.
 
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#19
Excuse me, 16 inches. My assumption is that the more aereal part you cut off the less roots needed to keep the remaining part, less sap flow and less development.
Sorry for being a bit snarky, I appologize. A tree will always grow as long as it is alive. 16 inches is nothing.
 
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