My 2nd styling attempt

Music4cash

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Here are before and after pics of a Juniper procumbens nana that I styled. This is the second tree that I've ever styled. I'm pretty happy with it. I might remove or trim back some of the jin, and I might remove some more of the leader on the left. Overall though I think it's at least as good as a typical mallsai. Hopefully I didn't kill it, but how long will it be before I know if the tree will survive all the work? There are quite a few videos on YouTube where they do this much work on a juniper but they rarely show you the same tree later.
20181013_124456.jpg20181013_180418.jpg
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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Nana usually shows damage in a month or so.
What worries me is the part I circled in red:
junip.png

Is that bare trunk all the war around? Because that would mean that there's 1 branch left on this plant. I hope that's not the case.

Personally, I'd wait with repotting until styling recovered. Doing it all at once (what I think happened) is taking a giant risk because you're doing roots and foliage at the same time. Especially when cutting down foliage that hard, it could mean that you've killed all auxin producing apexes. This weakens the root system.

I would have left some down facing foliage/branches on the left branch. That gives you something to work with in 3 directions instead of 2. If that left branch ever will be styled upwards, you'll face the issue that one side is completely void of branches. This heavily limits the possibilities. In the refinement stage, that's something one can pull off; the tree has it's base shape laid down. I think you went too soon on this one.

Nana's are fun though. They sometimes backbud creating new possibilities. So I suggest you keep it healthy and growing and see where this goes!
 

Music4cash

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Nana usually shows damage in a month or so.
What worries me is the part I circled in red:
View attachment 213431

Is that bare trunk all the war around? Because that would mean that there's 1 branch left on this plant. I hope that's not the case.

Personally, I'd wait with repotting until styling recovered. Doing it all at once (what I think happened) is taking a giant risk because you're doing roots and foliage at the same time. Especially when cutting down foliage that hard, it could mean that you've killed all auxin producing apexes. This weakens the root system.

I would have left some down facing foliage/branches on the left branch. That gives you something to work with in 3 directions instead of 2. If that left branch ever will be styled upwards, you'll face the issue that one side is completely void of branches. This heavily limits the possibilities. In the refinement stage, that's something one can pull off; the tree has it's base shape laid down. I think you went too soon on this one.

Nana's are fun though. They sometimes backbud creating new possibilities. So I suggest you keep it healthy and growing and see where this goes!

Thanks very much for the feedback. The cut on the trunk that you circled does not go all the way around, there was a single branch that I removed there. I often wonder when I watch the videos online if the trees survive, because so often you see them go from nursery stock to an almost fully styled tree in one go. I took off all the down facing foliage on all the branches because they said on a youtube video to do that. I guess I need to develop my ability to see long term plans for trees rather than thinking of a single styling as all there is. Thanks again for the feedback it really is very helpful. It still looks super helpful to me, 2 days later but I kept the branch I removed, and it still looks pretty healthy too. What will I see if the tree starts to die, and is there anything I can do if I start seeing symptoms??
 

Kendo

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"I often wonder when I watch the videos online if the trees survive, because so often you see them go from nursery stock to an almost fully styled tree in one go."

If the thinking you learning the Bonsai from online you are needing corrections. Hai If the video you watching has some more video over linear time of tree, then we can note progression. Hai Still needing correction Bonsai Mater. Hai

I show some here for you. Hai Bonsai master teaching. Hai Thank you so much.

 

Wires_Guy_wires

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I have watched the same video as you music4cash!
"Remove all downward facing branches. Because it saves you on wiring them later. They're just not worth it."
And I made the same mistake on some spruces. Luckily, those tend to back bud. But junipers don't. But these guys are working on already pretty refined trees. Far from raw stock material we pick as beginners.

Nowadays, I watch videos and try to understand what they're doing and why they are doing it. Sure, sometimes that leads to mistakes. Sometimes it leads to serious insights.
Like a few weeks ago, I commented something like this on someones thread: If you want a good and convincing piece of deadwood, you might want to grow it tall and big before you strip it of all the bark. That gives you something to work with. If the tree grows a foot tall and your deadwood is the size of a matchstick, you might as well remove it entirely. The person in question responded with something like: "I've always thought that to be logical, but nobody ever said it out loud."
Ryan Neil and Bjorn Bjorholm, in their videos say: Do deadwood work directly, because dried branches are harder to handle. But that's only when the wood is thick and strong enough already. They leave out the part about future vision and multiple year plans (at least in their free videos).
Me being enthusiastic, did some deadwood work straight away, as advised. But my trees have grown this year, and now I only have matchsticks and branches I want to keep. If it's true what they say about junipers, then it might just take 15 years to grow a replacement branch that could later be turned into deadwood.

In my juniperus procumbens self critique, you can read people saying that I should do the work now. To make it look good straight away. But my juniper isn't up to that. Branches are damaged from my own inexperience, and they'll need to heal first. If I would have listened to the experts, I wouldn't still have my tree. Their advice is sound, it's correct, it's well done and well needed, but it's poorly timed for my tree. That's part of the game, I think. I had to tell myself: these guys are right, but not right now. They'll still be right next year, or even the year after that. Whenever my hands go itchy, I take a look at the "future dead branch" of that nana. It's literally connected with a single strip of bark, 1/16th the width of the branch. A silk thread. The reminder.

Those are things I would like to have realized earlier. But there's progress in that thick skull of mine. That's what it's about.

As for damage control:
Nana will either dry up, or go brown all the way. If they dry up, it usually means there is still some connection with living material, but not enough to keep the foliage alive. Frequent misting could help to some extent, but usually it's a sign of a lost branch since the tissue is so slow growing that recovery/reconnection is nearly out of the question. If the foliage browns, there is no saving that branch and it has been dead for a while.
You can expect some dieback on the large leader, maybe a few branches/nodes down. At least, that's what happens with most junipers I've handled if thick branches are cut. Ever since I've noticed that, I try to keep 3 extra branches to counter for it.
 

Stormwater

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"I often wonder when I watch the videos online if the trees survive, because so often you see them go from nursery stock to an almost fully styled tree in one go."

If the thinking you learning the Bonsai from online you are needing corrections. Hai If the video you watching has some more video over linear time of tree, then we can note progression. Hai Still needing correction Bonsai Mater. Hai

I show some here for you. Hai Bonsai master teaching. Hai Thank you so much.

I keep meaning to ask, whats with the Hai's? cultural, language, to be fun? はい?
 

Music4cash

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Here's ask update on this tree. It seems to be doing pretty well. I removed the two jin in the front because I think they were distracting. I think eventually I will shorten the remaining jin, and possibly cut back the left side a little more. I probably won't do anything to it until next fall though.
 

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Myka

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I know nothing about bonsai yet, but I find your removal of those jin make a more balanced looking tree.
 

Music4cash

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I know nothing about bonsai yet, but I find your removal of those jin make a more balanced looking tree.

I knew they were too much when I made them I just wasn't sure yet which to remove. I'm pretty gunshy about making cuts, as there's no good way to undo them...
 
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