My Bonsai garden

[Vance Wood]

Maybe it's me, but I think you are misunderstanding things. The point of mentioning Walter Pall being a pro was that it is his full time job, he can manage more trees and has people who help him. The average hobbyist does not do this full time and does not have helpers in the garden. As a result the hobbyist cannot manage the same amount of high quality trees as Walter Palls garden does. Which is why many have said they top out around 25 trees.

I don't see any beef in this thread.

Actually what I see is that someone has come here with some pre judged opinions acquired from someone he has talked to that got the ass here in the past. Now; and in coming here, finds a different animal. This site is very good at furnishing information, find a better one and please let us know the address, at times we disagree and even squabble with one an other, so it would be advisable that you not come here with a chip on your shoulder you have not acquired here. There are a lot of individuals that will knock it off along with a shot at your head and give you well earned CHIP of your own---metaphorically speaking.

 

[MACH5]

Voted for 50

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Actually what I see is that someone has come here with some pre judged opinions acquired from someone he has talked to that got the ass here in the past. Now; and in coming here, finds a different animal. This site is very good at furnishing information, find a better one and please let us know the address, at times we disagree and even squabble with one an other, so it would be advisable that you not come here with a chip on your shoulder you have not acquired here. There are a lot of individuals that will knock it off along with a shot at your head and give you well earned CHIP of your own---metaphorically speaking.

Metaphorically I am playing in a massive bonsai soil "Sandpit". When we join this sandpit we agree to speak our mind, give opinions, and are passionate about the subject we discuss. Many CHIPS in this sandpit.

BUT in every sandpit there is a percentage of members who might like to stir up the sand and kick it around ( so-to-speak).

Also there are members who are inexperienced at how the rules of the sandpit works, so throw around their (my) opinion only to be pushed into the corner and told to wait, have patience "Daniel-San " and soon you will be a big kid who throws his sand around too.

Also in this sandpit there are leaders, and they are strong personalities who know by experience what to say and how to say it. I look up to these leaders are they will show me the way. These people will know who they are.

I am humbled as to how many leaders have made comments and advice as to how I should manage my hobby. New Zealand's Bonsai industry may be a good market for me to try another business, BUT this is just a pipe dream and lacks foundation of knowledge and experience. And probably enough population to make it viable.

Thank you for reading and participating.
Charles

 

[Tentakelaertje]

Off to a nice start Charles!
How bendable are these junipers? There's a thread on here about making yamadori style junipers from cuttings/nursery stock that might be very nice for you.
Also, I've understood NZ is one of the biggest exporters of Japanese maples. Seeing yours and your previous business you might know all about it, so maybe go search for a motherplant that's been used for taking cuttingsfor the past few decades. Unsure where those export nurseries are located tho.
It is one of the first things I'll be looking for when I get to NZ, that I tell ya!

I have about 60 now, which is way too much. Stuff like watering and feeding is perfectly doable, but that's all. Yesterday I noticed some wire deeply imbedded on a hornbeam.... applied it about 6 weeks ago and totally forgot about it in the fuss called my life.
I haven't found my balance and that might just take a while, but you can better add one until it is too much than get rid of one until there's no more to do.

Where about on the islands are you located? If all goes well I'll be going to uni at Waikato from February on and I'd love to talk bonsai with you some day.

 

[Vance Wood]

Metaphorically I am playing in a massive bonsai soil "Sandpit". When we join this sandpit we agree to speak our mind, give opinions, and are passionate about the subject we discuss. Many CHIPS in this sandpit.

BUT in every sandpit there is a percentage of members who might like to stir up the sand and kick it around ( so-to-speak).

Also there are members who are inexperienced at how the rules of the sandpit works, so throw around their (my) opinion only to be pushed into the corner and told to wait, have patience "Daniel-San " and soon you will be a big kid who throws his sand around too.

Also in this sandpit there are leaders, and they are strong personalities who know by experience what to say and how to say it. I look up to these leaders are they will show me the way. These people will know who they are.

I am humbled as to how many leaders have made comments and advice as to how I should manage my hobby. New Zealand's Bonsai industry may be a good market for me to try another business, BUT this is just a pipe dream and lacks foundation of knowledge and experience. And probably enough population to make it viable.

Thank you for reading and participating.
Charles

Just remember; a person that tries to make a business of bonsai has to be making a business out of love because there is not a lot of money it in unless you are very good and become well known.

 

[Rambles]

I sacrifice help for sleep

Or you could just go get some sleep and stop sacrificing the help...

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Off to a nice start Charles!
How bendable are these junipers? There's a thread on here about making yamadori style junipers from cuttings/nursery stock that might be very nice for you.
Also, I've understood NZ is one of the biggest exporters of Japanese maples. Seeing yours and your previous business you might know all about it, so maybe go search for a motherplant that's been used for taking cuttingsfor the past few decades. Unsure where those export nurseries are located tho.
It is one of the first things I'll be looking for when I get to NZ, that I tell ya!

I have about 60 now, which is way too much. Stuff like watering and feeding is perfectly doable, but that's all. Yesterday I noticed some wire deeply imbedded on a hornbeam.... applied it about 6 weeks ago and totally forgot about it in the fuss called my life.
I haven't found my balance and that might just take a while, but you can better add one until it is too much than get rid of one until there's no more to do.

Where about on the islands are you located? If all goes well I'll be going to uni at Waikato from February on and I'd love to talk bonsai with you some day.

Hi Tentakelaertje,
I will send you a PM as I am very excited to have a bonsai buddy in New Zealand, which we can learn off each other.
Thank you for your comments regarding my starting out trees. Yes I will check out all the Juniper related threads, and yes some of them are less than 5 years so hoping to bend them somewhat.
As for the Japanese Maples- one main exporter working out of New Plymouth. www.steppingstones.co.nz. Maybe when you get to NZ we can put an order in together as minimum order is 30 trees - but quite pricey tho $20-40 NZD per tree. Very exciting to have a company like this to maybe get some more cultivars. I got 17 now as I love these.
I might have gone overboard at over 150 sticks now, but big pots for the next 5-10 years to grow a trunk or 3, so my watering not too arduous. Maybe the wiring and pruning might be a bit more tiring.
I hope to start a new thread next week on an upright juniper I am struggling for a vision of how to style.
Thank you for responding here.
Charles.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Just remember; a person that tries to make a business of bonsai has to be making a business out of love because there is not a lot of money it in unless you are very good and become well known.

Hi Vance,
Many thanks for your advice about being a bonsai grower and being poor at same time. After a failed flower business, I know how to stick at something for the love not the money for too many years. My judgment was clouded by the love of growing Delphiniums for export. My most enjoyable experience is being a flower grower as I was lucky enough to be asked to supply Delphiniums for the White House for Valentine's Day in 2001. No photos 'cause of security reasons and no money after 11 years and a failed marriage either. Now happily married with 9 years to our names.
There may be potential so I will attempt to grow my trees, learn from this site, entertain with the odd NZ tree, and after 10 years when my sticks look more like junior trees I will reconsider my options.
There is no importing allowed as our bio security rules don't allow with out a 10$k permit. So seeds, tissue culture, and other prop methods more the rage here. Very cheap to import via tissue culture but hey not exactly established bonsai.
Lastly, I have no chip on my shoulder, I was naive to think that I could ask people to be polite to each other as a newbie and for that I am sorry. There may be some well respected names in Bonsai and yes I have some years to learn even to get enough respect that I have not given up and will I not give up.
I understand the hobby vs professional discussion but as I didn't think of all the ramifications of the thread before I started it , it is obvious now. To allocate time to this hobby without it BECOMING all consuming will be the Holy grail for me as I usually go at something like a maniac and then have a breakdown from the stress.
Charles.
PS. still thinking about everyone's answers and talking to myself trying to figure out who is in charge. Is it me,myself or I and man do we have some battles lol. One of us says cut that branch before all 3 of us have decided. Damn, who's grumpy, who's sleepy, and whose the weird F..k talking to himself anyway.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

I voted for 100-150

But here's the key - you can't/don't spend the same amount per tree. So for example if you have 150 trees:

10 that are in quality pots - maintenance
20 that are in ok pots - final development
40 that are in grow pots / flats - beginning development
80 that are in the ground / development for pre-bonsai only

So I guess 30 trees that you would want to show someone, and 120 trees behind the garage

Some of the stages of development take a lot more time (per tree) than maintenance (depending on species). And a tree in the ground might need attention only once or twice per year.

What you DON'T want is to have all trees at the same stage of development at the same time. Not only is it boring, but it can take the joy out of the hobby if (for example) you find yourself doing nothing but needle plucking black pines for three weeks every Fall.

The key is to not waste your time on "crap" and to fix problems early. Nothing worse than growing out a tree for 10 years just to find that some structural issue had now gotten 10 years worse.

Hi BonsaiNut,
Many thanks for your detailed answers. This has certainly cemented my ideas of growing out lots, to enjoy the experience, and then having the guts to put thru the schredder those which after 5 years of growing won't make the grade.
Many of my conifers ( not many pines) are between 5-7 years old so are (maybe) ready to be started the styling process but all my deciduous species are many (3-5 years) from any pruning or serious work.
I hear you and other experienced heads and love my time so far on this forum. A fast learning curve on effective communication and I will rock out some great threads.
Charles

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

The ideal number trees varies from artist to artist and is dependent on factors like your available time and the developmental stage of your trees. Personally, I could manage at least 1000 small trees in #1 nursery containers, but would struggle to maintain 30 show ready bonsai. It's not bad to have a lot of starts, you just need to be ready to cull as the trees develop or your situation changes.

Hi Quince, Thank you for taking the time to post on this thread. This helped qualify my thinking that I can grow many trees but need to be ruthless when it comes to how many I want to display/show in Bonsai pots. That being 10 years away I am very happy to slowly enjoy and experience pruning , re-potting, wiring, and styling ETC. I am sure I have missed some parts of the process.
Thank you

 

[sorce]

sure I have missed some part

The growing part! That a big one!

Sorce

 

[Tentakelaertje]

Hi Tentakelaertje,
I will send you a PM as I am very excited to have a bonsai buddy in New Zealand, which we can learn off each other.
Thank you for your comments regarding my starting out trees. Yes I will check out all the Juniper related threads, and yes some of them are less than 5 years so hoping to bend them somewhat.
As for the Japanese Maples- one main exporter working out of New Plymouth. www.steppingstones.co.nz. Maybe when you get to NZ we can put an order in together as minimum order is 30 trees - but quite pricey tho $20-40 NZD per tree. Very exciting to have a company like this to maybe get some more cultivars. I got 17 now as I love these.
I might have gone overboard at over 150 sticks now, but big pots for the next 5-10 years to grow a trunk or 3, so my watering not too arduous. Maybe the wiring and pruning might be a bit more tiring.
I hope to start a new thread next week on an upright juniper I am struggling for a vision of how to style.
Thank you for responding here.
Charles.

The Stepping Stones website looks more like a kid nursery than a Japmap exporter lol. I won't be having much budget, so the coming 5 years there ain't gonna be much bonsai spending I'm afraid...
If you sort out the roots and put those 150 sticks in the ground for a few years you're gonna have a bunch of very decent trees 10 years from now!
And as for the juniper, you can also put it in the "what the heck do I do with it"-thread. It's chockfull of struggle trees, so yours might fit it just perfectly!
I'll get to your PM soon!

 

[M. Frary]

267

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

The Stepping Stones website looks more like a kid nursery than a Japmap exporter lol. I won't be having much budget, so the coming 5 years there ain't gonna be much bonsai spending I'm afraid...
If you sort out the roots and put those 150 sticks in the ground for a few years you're gonna have a bunch of very decent trees 10 years from now!
And as for the juniper, you can also put it in the "what the heck do I do with it"-thread. It's chockfull of struggle trees, so yours might fit it just perfectly!
I'll get to your PM soon!

Hi and oops lol,
I hear you about the student and no money. So good to be starting your journey so young. It's when I should've started saving a few trees. Oh well, no problem.
Oops lol, the website for the Jap maple exporter is www.steppingstonesnursery.co.nz
Charles

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

267

Hi Mr Frary,
Thank you for taking the time to join my thread. I means a lot.
Charles

 

[PaulH]

I think that many hobbyists with too few trees tend to overwork their trees with negative effect. It is a good idea to have a number of trees around for when you get the urge to cut on a bonsai after a few beers.... A top quality bonsai is not kept in refined condition 100% of the time if you want it to stay healthy. It is necessary for the tree to be allowed to grow out accasionally to build strength. I voted for 50 - 100 because that's the number that works for me. Granted that I have a job that enables me to take trees to work to play with in my spare time. Those 50 - 100 are just trees in bonsai pots that I plan to show in the next 1 - 5 years. Trees near or at a high level of refinement number closer to 15. If I counted plants in the ground and nursery containers I'm sure I have 200++.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

The growing part! That a big one!

Sorce

Hi Sorce and all,
At work in little New Zealand I work for a company that employs 10-12 full timers and many part timers over summer. With 20 acres under outdoor production ( with shade and without) and over 300,000 plants sold per year, there's an automatic watering as all in pots/bags from 1.5-45 litres (1/4 -10 gallon I think). For me anyway the growing part of plants has always come easy to me, just the business sense and the artistic side need real work. Although I realize that growing in Bonsai pots requires way more effort from a watering system etc, I am looking forward to the challenge and if I can make enough money to pay for the $1000's of plants bought. Lol, bought another $100 today as I want to learn to graft pines/cedars and eventually maples. I will start a thread on my grafting journey so others can follow along. I have been quickly taught here with the cleft graft as we have done a few 1000's of Rhododendron cutting/graft. A good quick rooting variety is used as the scion wood and the slow rooting varieties grafted on top . After 6 months the cutting rootstock has rooted and hopefully the graft has joined up nicely also. So the top is prunedoff and 6 months later you get new and stronger plant. If people interested I can take photos etc.
Pines and cedars here I go. - Cedrus Atlantica glauca, Cedrus atlantica aurea, Cedrus atlantica pendula, and a dwarf mMonterey pine I can't seem to get rooted so I am grafting. This is a slow process I have read as it takes up to 2 years to cement the graft.
Weather been crap even as Spring. Hope to get some reasonable photos tomorrow so I can start another thread on my Junipers and maple.
Sorce, you were right when you said that most nursery stock is crap for nebari and yep read your thread- very helpful. A lot of what I am growing is cutting material so maybe 50-75 % will need to be ground layered again lol.
Charles

P.S hope you all enjoy the image us with major time filling hobbyists.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Hi Smoke,

Our hearts go out to Smoke at this time, sorry if the necklace was tactless.
Charles.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Hi all,
Yes I am guilty of a thread bump. Why you ask?
Through everyone’s feedback from this thread and many others I have read I thought I would share a few thoughts. I know these theories and feelings will change as the years progress.
I am enjoying watching my pre pre-Bonsai garden develop and am still amazed with how much trees etc grow. I have a passion for propagating ( if that isn’t clear yet) and my desire to grow plants is clear also. As most of my pre bonsai trees are years away from being in Bonsai pots I am asking those who would like to contribute to my thread to share on how they filled their time waiting etc.
I have a number of conifers and pines of which need a few minutes of my time and a few large - ish landscape trees I am looking forward to chopping and/ or creating large bonsai.
Anyway thank you in advance for comments as the waiting is not mega-fun.
Charles

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[BrianBay9]

Counted my collection last weekend - 72. Early in 2017 I moved and brought 22 trees with me, so clearly I have to slow down. Of the added 50, 15 were air layers, 12 were club raffle wins. So, 23 purchases, mostly trying to shift to shohin. I have no yard at the moment, just a patio so everything is in a pot, but mostly grow pots. Hopefully next year I'll start redistributing some of those air layers and raffle wins.