JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
In warm climates, sometimes simple is perfect, and old school is my middle name anyway...lol.
Thanks @substratum
Thanks @substratum
My Cold (Green) House
- Thread starter JudyB
- Start date
@JudyB, sorry if I missed this, but the Bayite controller and sensor probe product details suggest that the low set-point is 58 F. So how are you setting the bottom number at 35-38 F?
Would like to experiment with propagation mat this winter for a subset of trees, so trying to be sure that I most accurately establish the proper lower and upper set points to kick off (and kick back on) the mats.
Thanks
Noah
Would like to experiment with propagation mat this winter for a subset of trees, so trying to be sure that I most accurately establish the proper lower and upper set points to kick off (and kick back on) the mats.
Thanks
Noah
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
LOL, I knew mine went down below that 58º so I went and checked the controller specs on the link again, and that's -58 Noah! and the top end is 230... I never even knew it had such a range on it!
And actually I use one controller for heating, and one for cooling. You can use one for both, but it's a little less flexible that way, so I just have one for each.
alright, @JudyB, one more question... cannot find anything in the product details for the Redi-Heat propagation mats, but do you know how many watts are drawn by each mat when heating? (specifically the 21 inch x 5 foot units).
just trying to estimate how many mats I can run on a single circuit powering my back patio (15A @1800W).
Noah
just trying to estimate how many mats I can run on a single circuit powering my back patio (15A @1800W).
Noah
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
that size is 150 watts. If you look at Johnny's selected seeds site, it does have the wattages.
www.johnnyseeds.com
Seedling Heat Mats | 100% Guaranteed | Johnny's Selected Seeds
Increase germination rates and growth rates with seedling heat mats. Home garden and commercial-grade options. 100% satisfaction guaranteed.
@JudyB
OK, Judy, this is the truly the last set of questions....
Regarding the probes that come with the Bayite thermostats, do you mix up soil and bury the probe in an otherwise empty container, or do you insert the probe into one of you actual pots containing a tree?
Also, if you have both ceramic pots of variable design and thickness (e.g. feet height) and training/plastic nursery containers (like an Anderson flat), do you experience significant pot temperature differences based on how close to the propagation mat the containers sit?
I'm worried that heat transfer will be wildly different across the types of containers that I will be placing on my mats this winter.
I suppose the best I can do would be to group them according to the type of the container and monitor them using a suitably matched "sensor container" bearing the probe.
Maybe I'm over thinking this?
Your thoughtful perspective and experience would be appreciated.
Noah
OK, Judy, this is the truly the last set of questions....
Regarding the probes that come with the Bayite thermostats, do you mix up soil and bury the probe in an otherwise empty container, or do you insert the probe into one of you actual pots containing a tree?
Also, if you have both ceramic pots of variable design and thickness (e.g. feet height) and training/plastic nursery containers (like an Anderson flat), do you experience significant pot temperature differences based on how close to the propagation mat the containers sit?
I'm worried that heat transfer will be wildly different across the types of containers that I will be placing on my mats this winter.
I suppose the best I can do would be to group them according to the type of the container and monitor them using a suitably matched "sensor container" bearing the probe.
Maybe I'm over thinking this?
Your thoughtful perspective and experience would be appreciated.
Noah
EricMack
Yamadori
Noah,
@JudyB advised me before last Winter. I only had a few trees but it was my "first bonsai Winter" and it came up quickly. I used the Bayite thermostat and the Redi-Heat blue mat. See the pics... I put all my pots in one large black plastic tray (holes in the bottom for drainage), and buried the Bayite probe about an inch deep in the largest pot (you don't want to hit the bottom of the pot). Then, all of them went under my incredibly sophisticated Winter tent
which allowed moisture (melting snow or rain) to seep through. I live in central Ohio, we do get snow and cold temps. Everything worked great, and I could easily read the Bayite from inside the house. Notice the high-tech water/element protection around the Bayite...
Obviously a very simplistic setup for just a few trees, but it worked great and was easy to source/put together.
@JudyB advised me before last Winter. I only had a few trees but it was my "first bonsai Winter" and it came up quickly. I used the Bayite thermostat and the Redi-Heat blue mat. See the pics... I put all my pots in one large black plastic tray (holes in the bottom for drainage), and buried the Bayite probe about an inch deep in the largest pot (you don't want to hit the bottom of the pot). Then, all of them went under my incredibly sophisticated Winter tent
which allowed moisture (melting snow or rain) to seep through. I live in central Ohio, we do get snow and cold temps. Everything worked great, and I could easily read the Bayite from inside the house. Notice the high-tech water/element protection around the Bayite...Obviously a very simplistic setup for just a few trees, but it worked great and was easy to source/put together.
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Yes I think that you're overthinking, just pick a large or middle size pot, not a small one to put the probe into. That way the mat will fall on the high side for temps (the safer side) than the lower side as far as keeping the roots at a certain temp. It will fluctuate somewhat, but we are only after keeping roots from freezing solid for any length of time. I'll occasionally get a little surface freezing in the larger pots, but it never freezes solid, and the surface freeze is temporary.
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Nope. It retains the memory but I don’t know for how long
EricMack
Yamadori
It was still programmed from last Winter when I added a second controller and tested them last week...
Couldn't help myself, Judy... ran a little mini-experiment. Same soil (1:1:1) of similar volume and moisture in two very dissimilar pots on the same propagation mat.
The ceramic pot (with feet) and temp sensor/probe was connected to active Bayite thermostat set to 65 F. The plastic pot (making full contact with mat) and temp probe was connected to separate thermostat, just to energize the probe so I could read the soil temp in the plastic pot.
The results showed that when the soil in the ceramic pot reached 65, the soil in the plastic pot was 7 F warmer.
This makes complete sense to me given the dissimilar specific heat of the two materials and the dissimilar contact/surface area of each pot making contact with the mat. Lots of air circulating between the ceramic pot and the mat, too, obviously.
Anyway, this tells me it will be best to group plastic, flat-bottomed pots together and monitor soil temps separately from the ceramics with feet. Glad I have 5 mats and 5 controllers to play with this winter!
Overall, I think Judy's set up is absolutely excellent, so thanks for sharing all the info with us here!
Best
Noah
The ceramic pot (with feet) and temp sensor/probe was connected to active Bayite thermostat set to 65 F. The plastic pot (making full contact with mat) and temp probe was connected to separate thermostat, just to energize the probe so I could read the soil temp in the plastic pot.
The results showed that when the soil in the ceramic pot reached 65, the soil in the plastic pot was 7 F warmer.
This makes complete sense to me given the dissimilar specific heat of the two materials and the dissimilar contact/surface area of each pot making contact with the mat. Lots of air circulating between the ceramic pot and the mat, too, obviously.
Anyway, this tells me it will be best to group plastic, flat-bottomed pots together and monitor soil temps separately from the ceramics with feet. Glad I have 5 mats and 5 controllers to play with this winter!
Overall, I think Judy's set up is absolutely excellent, so thanks for sharing all the info with us here!
Best
Noah
Another piece of potentially useful data today... results that are not too surprising given how physics and the universe work...
When the set temp is not too far away from ambient air, the differential among the different pots is negligible. For example, this morning (40 F ambient) I set the ceramic pot to 45 F. When the ceramic pot reached 45.0 F and the mat kicked off, the plastic pot was at 45.2 F.
I predict that when it gets really cold, the differential would get larger again (just as it was when I set the temp at 65 F yesterday, well above ambient 52 F).
Anyway...
When the set temp is not too far away from ambient air, the differential among the different pots is negligible. For example, this morning (40 F ambient) I set the ceramic pot to 45 F. When the ceramic pot reached 45.0 F and the mat kicked off, the plastic pot was at 45.2 F.
I predict that when it gets really cold, the differential would get larger again (just as it was when I set the temp at 65 F yesterday, well above ambient 52 F).
Anyway...
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
I may have misunderstood something... but is it your intent to keep cold-hardy deciduous trees at 45 degrees F all winter? Chinese elms are cold hardy to Zone 4... what am I missing?
