My First Attempt - "Emperor One" Maple (Step 1: Keeping it alive!)

[Phanman]

Hi Nuts!

I happen to stumble across your forum after trying to research as much as I can on the net and boy was I happy I did. There is just a wealth of knowledge here and I haven't been able to stop reading. I'm a noob of course but have always been fascinated by bonsai's and the styling of them. I was at my local nursery and happen to notice this maple tree in the very back corner hidden behind some other types of tropical trees. I pulled it out and there was this beautiful JM. The sales associate said GL with that and you probably have a 50% chance of keeping it alive because we live in zone 3 but she was willing to give it to me for $50. At this price I thought why not, this is my chance to break into the hobby.

My first question for you all is will it survive dormancy in my unfinished basement with no light over the winter? It gets to -30 celcius here so it probably wont survive the winter outside or in the unheated garage its first year. Its to late to repot now but my plan for now is to keep it outside during the day and bring into the house at night until all the leaves fall off. At this point I would store it in the basement where it should be cool enough until next April where ill repot, trim?, and wire a little. It will be a few years before i can even think of air grafting this thing as the trunk of the tree isnt thick enough (currently 1").

Lots to learn until then but the first thing is keeping it alive through the winter.

Front


Back


Side


Trunk Base


Shaping Question:

It seems one branch has turn in on itself and is overlapping one of the main branches quite heavily. Can i cut off the red marked branch, wire the green circle branch so that it points to the green arrow once the leaves fall off? Or would you not touch anything at all at this point.



Look forward to any suggestions or feedback. Here to absorb all your knowledge lol.

 

[_#1_]

Sending love to the frozen tundra!

Your pics not showing...

I've read you can keep it dormant in total darkens no problem. As long as temp don't drop below what the tree can tolerate.

 

[Phanman]

Sending love to the frozen tundra!

Your pics not showing...

I've read you can keep it dormant in total darkens no problem. As long as temp don't drop below what the tree can tolerate.

Thx for the love! Pics fixed!

 

[sorce]

Welcome to Crazy!

I wonder if it wouldn't be best to chop it to less than a foot tall and bury the whole thing over winter?

Sorce

 

[0soyoung]

@Phanman, acer palmatums are okay down to about 15F. They get this resistance to freezing by sugaring-up which happens when they are exposed to the daily freeze-thaw temperature excursions of fall days.
So,

1. leave it outside until your night time lows are getting down to 20F or so
2. store it indoors where the temp will stay above 15F

Then, desiccation becomes the biggest risk of indoor winter storage - be sure the root 'ball' doesn't dry out (frozen is okay as it tells you the soil/substrate has water).

 

[Paradox]

What Osoyoung said.

Don't chop or repot now.

Do that in late winter/early spring just as the buds start to swell. Yes you can do both at the same time, just seal the cuts.

 

[Phanman]

Ok thx for the heads up. Dunno if I can find a place that sits around - 10 celcius all winter. Maybe I'll build an insulation box for the unheated garage when it dips below that to store the bottom half of the plant

 

[0soyoung]

Ok thx for the heads up. Dunno if I can find a place that sits around - 10 celcius all winter. Maybe I'll build an insulation box for the unheated garage when it dips below that to store the bottom half of the plant

In storage it needs to stay at temperatures in the range 15F (-10C) to 40F (+5C).
Any significant time below -10C may be fatal; the roots are most important, so you've got a good idea (wrapping the pot in insulation).

After the chilling time requirement is met for the buds, temperatures around +5C and more will cause bud break (and loss of antifreeze) - you don't want this to happen in February, for example, because the new growth will get killed by any subsequent freeze --> seriously weakens your tree if not killing it outright.

 

[Phanman]

In storage it needs to stay at temperatures in the range 15F (-10C) to 40F (+5C).
Any significant time below -10C may be fatal; the roots are most important, so you've got a good idea (wrapping the pot in insulation).

After the chilling time requirement is met for the buds, temperatures around +5C and more will cause bud break (and loss of antifreeze) - you don't want this to happen in February, for example, because the new growth will get killed by any subsequent freeze --> seriously weakens your tree if not killing it outright.

Thankyou for the heads up. I will make sure I have a thermometer to try and maintain the temperature consistency.

 

[M. Frary]

I don't know Celsius but you and I have similar temperatures during the winter. We regularly see minus 20F. here for long stretches.
As you go along in this hobby you will find a lot of trees used for bonsai won't live there well,if at all. I tried a Japanese maple twice. No more. Late frosts. Early frosts. Very cold,dry winters. They're too delicate.
But there is hope. Junipers,Amur maples,Tamaracks,American elm,Siberian elm,Scots pine and Mugo pine all do well in your environment. Outside all year long. Sit on the ground and mulch them in. Your biggest worry will be with 4 legged problems. From voles up to deer.

 

[Salcomine]

My neighbor manages to over winter her red Japanese maple in her unheated shed for the last few years. Keeping it out of the wind seems to be the big thing. We are a ways north west of you in Prince George. Your unheated garage would probably work fine for storage, mine is usually about 10 degrees warmer than outside. Wrapping it in burlap bags might help. one around the pot and one loosely around the trunk/ over the top of the pot so you can check out if it's drying out. I was thinking about pickin up a cheap maple to see if it will survive for me. Good luck with it anyways.

 

[quietobserver]

I have a couple "emperor" red maples I purchased end of season on clearance at the chateau depot. They make okay larger trees. Leaves reduce nicely and they're pretty tough.Granted it rarely gets as low as the teens here, but they haven't given me any trouble. Enjoy your tree!!

 

[Cypress187]

U have a lot to learn and U will welcome to the forum!

 

[Phanman]

Thanks for all the advice, eventually I'd like to plant it in the ground but probably not for a couple yrs once it gets bigger and stronger. I have a whole backyard to landscape and build a deck so alot to do. One thing I love and hate about new communities and homes is the endless projects lol.

Glad a few of you up north have had some success, gives me hope! Will need a few more trees next spring to block out the neighbors so always on the hunt for interesting looking trees

 

[AlainK]

In my opinion, this can be a very nice garden tree, but it isn't good material for bonsai, at all.

Though the graft is neatly done, it will always be visible, which is a major fault for bonsai display.

Trunk Base

For instance, I have this Acer palmatum 'Atropurpureum' in a 50 cm-wide and about the same height pot. I've had it for about 15 years and it's about 1m50 tall. Here is a close-up of the first 20 cm:


* is where the graft line shows. You can see that years after, the difference in the bark structure still shows
<-o is where a bulge shows: very hard to get rid of since the rootstock and the scion don't grow the same
_R is the rootstock. Nice base...
_S is the scion, the grafted part of the tree.

15+ years later, the graft is still evident. No good for bonsai.

I don't think that grafted Japanese maples will ever make acceptable bonsai, or maybe after decades of special care by a very experienced bonsai enthusiast. Are you?

If not, use the plain species, you will learn and have good results much faster.

 

[AlainK]

acer palmatums are okay down to about 15F

When in the ground, most are much hardier than that, -20°C to -25° C (-4F to -13F for those who got stuck in the 18th century).

When potted, the whole rootball can freeze, so it has to be protected. I dug out a 25cm deep, 3x5 metres patch in the back of my garden. when leaves fall down (I have a big Zelkova, it's disease-free), I put a layer of leaves that will give some heat when they decompose, put my trees there, then add more leaves up to the first branches of my bonsai. The ones in big pots are at the back, against a low wall and I fill in the empty spaces with pine bark.

Even pomegranates made it out last winter, but there were only a few 5-6 days in a row below zero at a time (minimum -9°C / 15.8F for those who prefer German-based units of measurement made in the early 18th century)

 

[M. Frary]

When in the ground, most are much hardier than that, -20°C to -25° C (-4F to -13F for those who got stuck in the 18th century).

Yep. Zone 5 or more trees. Put one in the ground in my or the OPs zone will kill it outright. If he is in zone 4 or less forget about it.

 

[Phanman]

Thx, looks like ill just enjoy this as a potted tree and try to find another bonsai worthy specimen.