My first Ebihara.

[maroun.c]

I tried to find me some maple for this but couldn't find one here so ended up trying the technique with a small Elm I had. this one is rather thick for its trunk length so thought it might look nice in few years maybe. I'm still hoping I can find me a mapple to try with.
Got a piece of wood cut to fit this pot which i regret not going larger after seing the tree in... anyway would give me a good start for first year I guess or worst cast I repot again in March





placed a nail in the middle


prepared my tree by pulling out of the old peat soil it was in. roots were too much tangled so I had to cut excessively. I wanted to avoid that as I'm repotting in Aug.


Cut down vertical thick roots


And fixed on the screw. placed a thin layer of soil below the wood to host any roots that extend beyond the wood. I regret having such a thick piece of wood as it's taking too much pot space.

 

[maroun.c]

Also worked out the roots as much as I could in a radial position and fixed with small nails, this was the most tricky part.



And the finished thing.





I'm not sure about the pot size so appreciate any advice if I should move to a larger pot now or wait till next march or maybe a couple of years?
should I check root growth by removing a bit of the soil in 3-4 months or just let it be till next repot?

 

[CamdenJim]

Wouldn't you get better results in a larger pot? It seems to me you would get better roots faster if there was more growing space there.
It wouldn't have to be an inappropriately wide pot, but even with thinner wood, a deeper pot might be preferable.
(Just questioning here. I'm considering something similar for the spring, so I'm glad to see you doing this.)

 

[fredman]

Yeah man. That thing needs space for those roots to explore...Loads of space

 

[maroun.c]

Yup wondered about that as I was filling the pot with soil. I've already prepared a pot with a piece of wood and wondering if I should Replant now or in Mar maybe

 

[TomB]

If you've just done this, then you could replant in a bigger pot - just lift it out and put it in the new one. Don't change the wood or mess with the roots, there has already been enough damage to them. I would then leave the roots alone until spring 2018.

 

[maroun.c]

Thanks will do that then.

 

[Adair M]

A grow box works well.

Thinner wood under the tree and wider.

But, you could leave it just as it is for a year, and re-do it the following year. You're not going to be keeping anything wider than the block of wood you already have under it.

So, leave it for now. Since you've done it this time, next time you will understand the process better and everything will be easier!

 

[Adair M]

Oh, while you're doing this, let the branches run. Let them grow to 2 feet long. THEN cut them back to 4 inches. Over and over.

 

[markyscott]

Hi maroun.c

I had a couple of impressions looking over what you've done. Overall, you did a fine job and you'll learn a lot from this experiment. I wouldn't do anything at this point - just leave it be and let it grow. Please take the following as constructive feedback for the next time you try this:

1. I don't know your climate, but this seems like an odd time of year to be doing this kind of work. I know some folks who do autumn repotting, but generally I avoid it if I have the choice in preference to early spring. I didn't see any before pictures, but elms are pretty tough - it will probably be fine but may suffer some leaf drop.
2. Your tree seems to have inverse taper right at the base. This will be difficult to correct. You might eventually consider ground layering to remove the inverse taper and starting over again.
3. Make sure that you remove all of the old sphagnum peat from around the roots. I wash them off with a hose.
4. Consider using a wider grow box so you can let the roots run horizontally for a long distance. You can build it out of pine wood or use a shallow plastic tray. The idea is that as you let the surface roots run they get strong. As the surface roots get strong, they provide more of the water and nutrients the tree needs and receive most of the sugars. This stimulates cell division at the root/stem junction - that combined with the fusion of the strong surface roots is what causes the basal flare.
5. The purpose of the nails is to direct the roots radially from the trunk. If you put the nails closer to the trunk you have more control of the direction the roots leave the trunk. Like in the picture below.
6. It doesn't appear as though you wired the tree to the pot. Always do this. Just run some aluminum wire through the drainage holes and drainage layer and twist the ends over the top of the board to hold it in place tightly. You don't want any movement at all so the new roots can get established.
7. Another thing to consider is the root pruning. The goal is to make the root ball balanced. This means that you want an even distribution of roots around the trunk and you want them to all be the same strength. So every time you repot, it's an opportunity to rebalance the roots - this means cutting back the strong ones and leaving the weak ones long. Look at your example - the long ones have all been left long. That means they'll continue to be the strongest roots next growing season and you'll be more out-of-balance the next time you repot.

Scott​

 

[johng]

The OP doesn't state how large of a final tree he is going for, but if we assume that it is going to be small in size, then...

Thinner wood under the tree and wider.

Why? ultimately isn't the current size about as big as you would want the final root spread given this material...what is the purpose of a wider board?

Let them grow to 2 feet long. THEN cut them back to 4 inches.

Given the size of this material why would you want 4" section on a branch...seems about 4x too long...I would cut back to 1-1.5 inches...and then progressively shorter each time

 

[maroun.c]

A grow box works well.

Thinner wood under the tree and wider.

But, you could leave it just as it is for a year, and re-do it the following year. You're not going to be keeping anything wider than the block of wood you already have under it.

So, leave it for now. Since you've done it this time, next time you will understand the process better and everything will be easier!

Indeed would do things a lot different next time.

 

[maroun.c]

Hi maroun.c

I had a couple of impressions looking over what you've done. Overall, you did a fine job and you'll learn a lot from this experiment. I wouldn't do anything at this point - just leave it be and let it grow. Please take the following as constructive feedback for the next time you try this:

1. I don't know your climate, but this seems like an odd time of year to be doing this kind of work. I know some folks who do autumn repotting, but generally I avoid it if I have the choice in preference to early spring. I didn't see any before pictures, but elms are pretty tough - it will probably be fine but may suffer some leaf drop.
2. Your tree seems to have inverse taper right at the base. This will be difficult to correct. You might eventually consider ground layering to remove the inverse taper and starting over again.
3. Make sure that you remove all of the old sphagnum peat from around the roots. I wash them off with a hose.
4. Consider using a wider grow box so you can let the roots run horizontally for a long distance. You can build it out of pine wood or use a shallow plastic tray. The idea is that as you let the surface roots run they get strong. As the surface roots get strong, they provide more of the water and nutrients the tree needs and receive most of the sugars. This stimulates cell division at the root/stem junction - that combined with the fusion of the strong surface roots is what causes the basal flare.
5. The purpose of the nails is to direct the roots radially from the trunk. If you put the nails closer to the trunk you have more control of the direction the roots leave the trunk. Like in the picture below.
6. It doesn't appear as though you wired the tree to the pot. Always do this. Just run some aluminum wire through the drainage holes and drainage layer and twist the ends over the top of the board to hold it in place tightly. You don't want any movement at all so the new roots can get established.
7. Another thing to consider is the root pruning. The goal is to make the root ball balanced. This means that you want an even distribution of roots around the trunk and you want them to all be the same strength. So every time you repot, it's an opportunity to rebalance the roots - this means cutting back the strong ones and leaving the weak ones long. Look at your example - the long ones have all been left long. That means they'll continue to be the strongest roots next growing season and you'll be more out-of-balance the next time you repot.

View attachment 116424
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Hi Scott and thanks for all the suggetions. a few replies
1. summer is just ending here and temp has just started dropping (around 25-30 degrees Celsius) agree its a bad time for this but had this elm left from few I got for an elm forest and it was in a nylon small pot and roots were pot bound so had no other choice than go with this now...
2. good catch. it does have a bit of reverse taper but I was hoping the thicker base would exten a bit and either correct it or maybe hide it a bit? would definitely want to avoid an air layer and restart as I want to train on Ebihara. do you suggest a restart with another tree ?
3. all sphagnum was removed by washing.
4. I have a couple of larger pots with larger wood ready to redo this one or maybe a couple new ones.
5.Spot on. I struggled with this root as it was a bit too stiff to move and was afraid to break it especially after I had taken out more than 80% of the roots. will try to fix at earliest chance.
Scott
6-Correct I didn't wire will redo on first chance.
7-Correct but I did a very bad job cleaning the roots and lost most while cleaning... so thought to keep what's possible at least till next repot and take all thick roots for a more balanced rootball next time. do you think I can take those off or will it be too few roots to sustain the tree?
Thanks.

 

[maroun.c]

Haven't thought about final size but as this tree is around 4-5 inch only if I get a final size of around 10-15 inch guess it'll be fine.
Now read a bit more about ebihara and if I understand right I think I have a mistake of not having enough soil for roots to grow under the wood piece. In my case that space is limited.
Am wondering if I should just wait till next year and redo or redo now. I also have 2 other pots and wood ready for this or two other trees. I have a few olives that I haven't decided what to do with, one of which has a nice bulb shape already on bottom of the trunk. Would u think olives would Do well and look nice with Ebihara?
Thanks for all the input.

 

[markyscott]

Hi maroun.c

1. summer is just ending here and temp has just started dropping (around 25-30 degrees Celsius) agree its a bad time for this but had this elm left from few I got for an elm forest and it was in a nylon small pot and roots were pot bound so had no other choice than go with this now...

OK. Generally a bit of time root bound is a lot less dangerous than an out of season severe root pruning, but it's an elm and you could have picked worse times than early fall.

2. good catch. it does have a bit of reverse taper but I was hoping the thicker base would exten a bit and either correct it or maybe hide it a bit? would definitely want to avoid an air layer and restart as I want to train on Ebihara. do you suggest a restart with another tree ?

You'll probably want to try with a couple of trees - it's good practice. If you want to work on this tree, you'll eventually want to take care of the reverse taper. One way to deal with it is to restart the root ball further up the trunk, above the problem areas. Like this:

7-Correct but I did a very bad job cleaning the roots and lost most while cleaning... so thought to keep what's possible at least till next repot and take all thick roots for a more balanced rootball next time. do you think I can take those off or will it be too few roots to sustain the tree?
Thanks.

In the early spring you can be very aggressive with Chinese elm. Here's one I did - it didn't skip a beat.


Good luck and I'll be curious to see your tree develop.

Scott

 

[maroun.c]

Thanks for all the info.
Guess will restart the roots higher as you say. Which will require redoing the ebihara after I chop it. Can I start that now and chop early spring and replace on another wood in a larger pot?
Also what other trees do u suggest trying with? Would olives look nice with this technique?
Thanks

 

[markyscott]

Thanks for all the info.
Guess will restart the roots higher as you say. Which will require redoing the ebihara after I chop it. Can I start that now and chop early spring and replace on another wood in a larger pot?
Also what other trees do u suggest trying with? Would olives look nice with this technique?
Thanks

Done do anything now. An out of season repot is enough. An untimely layer on top of that would not be good. We layer in early spring. Separate layer in fall if it's got enough roots or the following spring if it doesn't.

Never tried an olive. Give it a go and we can all learn.

Scott

 

[maroun.c]

Understood.
Thanks.