My grow out garden

[MACH5]

I've been very busy the past few months and have not being able to post some of my maple bonsai projects. I've been trying since the Spring with not much luck Anyway, in the mean time I wanted to post some pics of my grow out area which consists mainly of Japanese maples. Most of the ones you see I purchased form Dave Verkade. He specializes in rare and usual plants. He is the 8th generation of horticulturists. Him as well as his father have created new cultivars of maples and some of which you can see in these pics.

The only issue with most of what I'm growing out is that they are grafted. In order to "fix" the problem, I have applied a wire tourniquet above the grafts in an effort to induce a new root system. If this doesn't do the trick I will then proceed with the more traditional technique and cut a ring around the trunks. Next Spring I will take them out and check roots and prune for rough initial shape and put them back in the ground.

Not all are maples. In the last pic you can see a close up of a round leaf beech (Fagus Sylvatica Rotundifolia) which seems to be a great candidate for bonsai.

I think most of this material is still 5-10 years out from even seeing a bonsai pot

 

[misfit11]

Right on, Mach. I think this is great esp. for beginners to see. When people get into bonsai, they think they need to get something into a bonsai pot immediately or their not "doing bonsai". So much of this hobby is obtaining worthwhile stock that can EVENTUALLY go into a small pot. Oftentimes, this means either spending lots of $$$ or growing things out in the open ground. Collecting isn't really a viable option for beginners because they don't have access to material and wouldn't know how to keep it alive if they did. Ground growing, I think, is the best option for beginners to acquire quality bonsai material since it doesn't require lots of money (you do need some space, though). And as one of my teachers says, "it shouldn't go into a bonsai pot until it's about 80% there".

I've seen some of your "finished" trees, so the proof is in the pudding.

 

[JudyB]

I've never seen one of these round leaf beeches. Does it have the same basic growth patterns/tendencies apart from leaf shape?
Interesting. Lovely garden.

 

[MACH5]

Right on, Mach. I think this is great esp. for beginners to see. When people get into bonsai, they think they need to get something into a bonsai pot immediately or their not "doing bonsai". So much of this hobby is obtaining worthwhile stock that can EVENTUALLY go into a small pot. Oftentimes, this means either spending lots of $$$ or growing things out in the open ground. Collecting isn't really a viable option for beginners because they don't have access to material and wouldn't know how to keep it alive if they did. Ground growing, I think, is the best option for beginners to acquire quality bonsai material since it doesn't require lots of money (you do need some space, though). And as one of my teachers says, "it shouldn't go into a bonsai pot until it's about 80% there".


I've seen some of your "finished" trees, so the proof is in the pudding.

Thanks Misfit! Yes I thought it might be interesting for a newcomer to see one of many ways in creating bonsai. I agree that too often trees end up in a bonsai pot and presented as "finished pieces" way too prematurely.

I've never seen one of these round leaf beeches. Does it have the same basic growth patterns/tendencies apart from leaf shape?
Interesting. Lovely garden.

Thanks Judy! I hadn't either until a couple of years ago. In my short experience with them it seems that they do behave just like a typical beech. Perhaps someone with more experience can chime in on this.

 

[sledmanx]

I would be very interested in hearing more about how you are dealing with the graft scars. By essentially layering above the scar, does the tree maintain the same traits? Do you plant them deeper? How can I find out more?

Many thanks,
Adam

 

[Poink88]

Nice setup and I am curious about the beech.

Collecting isn't really a viable option for beginners because they don't have access to material and wouldn't know how to keep it alive if they did.

I am a 10 month newbie and I beg to disagree. More than half of my trees are collected for free (and I have more than 80). Some are 15-40 years old (I was told) and are thriving. I admit of losing a few but quantity is insignificant compared to those that survived. If I grow stocks in ground now, I probably won't have the same quality plants by the time I kick the bucket. Turning my stump collection to proper bonsai is another story though (and I am still working on it ).

You are right that some of us have no space to grow in ground.

 

[MACH5]

I would be very interested in hearing more about how you are dealing with the graft scars. By essentially layering above the scar, does the tree maintain the same traits? Do you plant them deeper? How can I find out more?

Many thanks,
Adam

Hi Adam. Yes the trees retain exactly the same traits. You do need to plant deeper to encourage root growth in the area where they are layered. Two popular methods is to apply a wire tourniquet tightly bent all around the trunk. This is the safest way to layer but not always the most effective since the cambium layer can fuse back again onto itself over the wire. A far better, but deemed not quite as safe a method, is to cut a ring of bark around the trunk. I think at least with Japanese Maples this is very effective and works really well IME. If you do a google search you'll find lots of info on layering JMs

I will try and post pics of these trees as they develop further in case anybody is interested.

Nice setup and I am curious about the beech.


I am a 10 month newbie and I beg to disagree. More than half of my trees are collected for free (and I have more than 80). Some are 15-40 years old (I was told) and are thriving. I admit of losing a few but quantity is insignificant compared to those that survived. If I grow stocks in ground now, I probably won't have the same quality plants by the time I kick the bucket. Turning my stump collection to proper bonsai is another story though (and I am still working on it ).

You are right that some of us have no space to grow in ground.

Thanks Poink! I'm guessing you're directing your disagreement with misfit's post yes? Well I do I agree with him that most newcomers may not be quite as successful in collecting trees?? I don't think you're the norm. So kudos to you!

I will admit that this little grow out garden is not much more than a place for me to observe, do horticultural experiments and learn plant behavior. Is is not my main way to create bonsai... far from it

 

[Poink88]

Thanks Poink! I'm guessing you're directing your disagreement with misfit's post yes? Well I do I agree with him that most newcomers may not be quite as successful in collecting trees?? I don't think you're the norm. So kudos to you!

Yes, it is Misfit (that is why I quoted his post). I do not think I did anything special, so I believe anyone can do what I did. It is just a mindset, timing, and educating yourself before diving into it.

 

[JudyB]

educating yourself before diving into it.

But most folks want to jump in without doing any of the research work.... Then they want instant fixes for their issues. So you did do something, if not special, then at least different than the norm.

 

[MACH5]

Sorry Poink I didn't initially see you had quoted Misfit. My bad!

I do also agree with Judy. You did something not everyone is doing. I would also add that collecting gets MUCH more complicated when you're talking about pines and junipers. I personally leave that to the experts. But that's an entirely differnt post altogether!

 

[rockm]

There's collecting and then there's COLLECTING

Collecting to get "free" material usually involves small trees, less than three inches in diameter that have very little character and a lot of development ahead of them.

COLLECTING (for lack of a better term) for those who have been at this for a while involves finding unique, old and mostly BIG material that has 100 or more years of trunk development time in the ground. Removing older trees is a different skill set than removing younger ones. The skills to do one, may not translate directly to the other.

 

[Poink88]

Rockm,

I think I know what you mean and I agree.

I mostly "collect" (not "COLLECT") or rescue older urban plants that are destined to be removed, replaced, or destroyed. Some are less than 3" but most have bigger base than that. A few (crabapple, ilex vomitoria, boxwood, ligustrum, azalea, cedar elm) are in the 5"-12" range which I can never attain (in my life time) by buying a nursery stock and planting on ground.

Being a plant rescuer, I don't really have much choice and take what ever opportunity I get. Finding unique materials (if ever) is purely by luck for me. That said, over all, I consider myself very lucky.

Most of my local purchases are actually the smallest in my collection. I do have a few bigger imported tropical trees (stumps) which are surprisingly "cheap" considering their size.

(sorry, I don't mean to semi-hijack this thread).

 

[misfit11]

Nice setup and I am curious about the beech.


I am a 10 month newbie and I beg to disagree. More than half of my trees are collected for free (and I have more than 80). Some are 15-40 years old (I was told) and are thriving. I admit of losing a few but quantity is insignificant compared to those that survived. If I grow stocks in ground now, I probably won't have the same quality plants by the time I kick the bucket. Turning my stump collection to proper bonsai is another story though (and I am still working on it ).

You are right that some of us have no space to grow in ground.

Poink,
In addition to what Rockm said, I also agree with others here that have said regarding your success in collecting. I really think you are the exception when it comes to beginners. MOST beginners simply aren't equipped with the knowledge (nor materials for that matter) that is necessary to keep collected material alive to see its first styling. I've seen your posts sharing some of the material that you've collected over the last year and I must admit I am quite impressed. I only wish that I would have gotten the start in bonsai that you seem to be getting. Lots of time in my early days was wasted on crappy sticks-in-pots that had little or no potential and was planted in less than ideal growing conditions. You most definitely have not made some of the typical beginner mistakes, but you are the exception.

And rockm is right. There is a big divide between collecting some landscape shrubbery and collecting ancient conifers...

 

[Poink88]

Misfit (and others). Thank you.

I guess I haven't thanked people here and (other forums, blogs, youtube, etc.) enough for all the information you all freely share. Without your advise, I most likely wouldn't have as much success. I am flattered that you think I am an exception but do hope others will follow suit and breakaway from the "norm" as you described.

Re: conifers...I haven't considered digging one yet but if the (rescue) opportunity comes, I will surely give it a shot.

Thanks again and I apologize for the thread jacking (I promise this is my last post in this thread).

 

[MACH5]

Dario no worries at all about your supposed "thread jacking". You are welcome on this thread anytime!