My indoor bonsai starter plants

SlowMovingWaters

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Hello everyone I hope you are having a good day. Today I would like to share my starter plants ordered from ebay.

The plants are growing under a 400 watt Metal Halide grow light. Plenty of light to share. I also am growing peppers indoors in case you were wondering what those plants in the back of the pics are.

Here is an overview of the grow room.
Bdx80dd.jpg


Chinese Elm
rxHT0wf.jpg


Variegated Serissa
NA7nHJB.jpg


Japanese Maple
tlFRFgh.jpg


This thread will mostly be for the Chinese Elm however I'll also show the other plants as they grow. Unfortunately the Japanese Maple will probably die within a few years unless it is given a dormancy in the fridge for a few months which I may just do yearly. All the tree's will go into bonsai soil as soon as they get thicker trunks for now coco coir is the planting medium. Kinda like growing in ground but indoors in 7x7x8'' pots.

Thanks for viewing the thread any advise is welcome.
 

coltranem

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Growing in a pot with coco coir is really not like growing in the ground. The problem is over time in a pot the roots compact the soil. This doesn't happen in the ground. Coco coir is good for starting seeds because the plants are not in starter pots for long. This is why potting soil includes things like perlite. These help keep the soil aerated and slow compaction.
 

Shibui

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I will be very interested to see how the elm and maple manage inside in your growing setup. These trees usually do not do well indoors but maybe you can give them the conditions the need?
Dormancy in a fridge seems to be making things more difficult that need be. Maybe you don't have access to outside where trees get natural dormancy?
 

SlowMovingWaters

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Unfortunately I can not overwinter outdoors because I live in a apartment building with no garden space.
 

_#1_

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That maple is in alot of pain, if can feel pain. Hope it goes out fast and easy.

Your elm is probably living in fear right now
 

penumbra

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If your maple goes outside now you may save it. Otherwise you will kill it. Your elm might live a bit longer but it will die too. It is a shame that you did not research this and that you have doomed these two plants to certain death.
 

SlowMovingWaters

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For anyone who thinks this absolutely will not work I recommend you read Jack Wikle's pdf here http://www.fourseasonsbonsai.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/JackWilke_lighting.pdf on growing bonsai under florescence. Ovbiously I've stated the Japanese maple may not live without a vacation in the fridge. But, the Serissa and Chinese Elm should do fine without dormancy.
 

Forsoothe!

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The pepper will probably do OK, and the Elm can limp through, but the JM will struggle, he needs sleep. Put it in a dark space and water the crown with maybe 3 oz every 3 weeks. It will go dormant, or die, and maybe buds will begin to show expansion ~March something. Give it light and regular treatment at that time. The Elm would do better with that treatment, too, otherwise it will limp through summer, too.

You could buy a fig, -there are many kinds, and an Arboricola (called dwarf Schefflera) and a Chinese Sweet Plum and a Texas Ebony and a Brazilian Raintree and Tamarind and Bougainvillea and Satsuki Azalea and Portulacaria and Desert Rose and Jabotocaba and Fukien Tea and Natal Plum and Dwarf Spiny Black Olive and Calamondin Orange and Kumquat and Cape Honeysuckle and several varieties of Cryptomeria are happy in zone 9 and Golly! there's just so many great bonsai candidates out there that will grow happily in you home over winter, but you're going to piss away this winter, "Just to watch him die..." Johnny Cash could write a song about you. A funny song, but sad.
 

coltranem

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For anyone who thinks this absolutely will not work I recommend you read Jack Wikle's pdf here http://www.fourseasonsbonsai.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/JackWilke_lighting.pdf on growing bonsai under florescence. Ovbiously I've stated the Japanese maple may not live without a vacation in the fridge. But, the Serissa and Chinese Elm should do fine without dormancy.
Interesting article. The problem is the OP is not using the best soil either.
 

penumbra

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For anyone who thinks this absolutely will not work I recommend you read Jack Wikle's pdf here http://www.fourseasonsbonsai.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/JackWilke_lighting.pdf on growing bonsai under florescence. Ovbiously I've stated the Japanese maple may not live without a vacation in the fridge. But, the Serissa and Chinese Elm should do fine without dormancy.
Read it. Good article but not relevant. Prove us wrong and do it.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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I've used 400 watt HPS lamps for my orchids for over 30 years. They are great. Expensive to run but otherwise great. What are you doing about heat build up? I keep fans on 24/7 in the growing area. One fan exhausts heat to the outside.

Zone 9 and zone 10 tropicals are the main plants you should consider for your indoor only collection. Any member of the genus Ficus. I like bougainvillea. The ''Belgium hybrids" and other varieties of azalea that are intended for potted plants forcing market for the floral industry (not landscape industry) any of these azalea should do fine. Tropical Vireya Rhododendrons should be fine. some have leaves small enough for bonsai.

Citrus, if you are under 60 years old, citrus of most types make decent bonsai. BUT they take forever to become attractive. Bark is ugly green or green with white patchy bark for the first 20 years. Then somewhere about the time the trunk gets to 25 or 30 years old, it develops a wonderful texture and color. Brown in lemons and grapefruit to near black in kumquats. THe texture is usually a pebbled texture that is quite nice. But it takes time to get the bark. until then they are "kinda ugly".

Juniper procumbens is the only juniper that will reliably survive under lights. Some Cupressa, or Hesperocuppressa, Like the dwarf Mendocino Cypress will do well in year round under lights.
To the best of my knowledge, my attempts to grow Japanese black pine under 400 and 1000 watt HPS were failures. Or at least unsatisfactory after 18 months. I doubt there are any pines that will do well under lights.

The most shade tolerant pine I know of will also grow in zone 8 - Pinus glabra - the spruce pine - I have no experience, but my "Internet Knowledge" suggests this might be the only pine that might thrive under indoor light only. Worth the experiment. If it works for you, let us know.

Casuarina and Allocasuarina are 2 genera of Australian trees that superficially resemble pines, and might do well under lights. Worth checking out. Used a lot in Indonesian bonsai as a stand in for pines and junipers. I believe she-oak is one of the common names.

So have fun, ignore those that say it can never be done. Do accept that some trees will adapt and some will not. Your failures will be trees that need cool temperatures, and dormant rests.

But I know from experience that quite a number of trees can be raised under lights. My Bougainvillea has never been outside, even though I could put it outside. Its a small cutting, doesn't look like much but keeps blooming for me.

Bougie-May2016a-small.jpg

Bougie-May2016c-small.jpg
 

Ayata

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Here is my Chinese Elm Mallsai doing fine while other side of the window is covered in snow back in January:
262049
And here it is today:
262050
Between those two photos, I did about 3 prunings to shorten some shoots that were getting too long or that were unwanted. This tree was purchased October 9th last year and was repotted, then heavily pruned and kept indoors up until beginning of August this year.

Now by no means, I am not posting this to say they can always be kept indoors. Just sharing my experience of keeping one for about close to a year and how much it grew during that time. You can see more of the progress in my thread in this forum.
I read online that some people kept these indoors for a few years but after a few years they lost strength and died. I have no experience with that long of a period, so no comment. I have a few cuttings from this tree and i think i will keep one of them exclusively indoors and see how far it goes, how vigorous it gets. Just an experiment, while the main tree spends rest of its winters outside.

Probably the most challenging thing about the winter spent indoors was how little sunlight there was or sometimes there wasn't at all. We get cloudy weeks here. There is a clear difference in thickness of the new shoots during winter and summer.
I will have to wait till next year to compare the growth difference between summer after winter indoors and summer after dormancy.
 

_#1_

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The question is, if certain trees have no business staying indoors indefinitely, why do it when others before has tried and failed?

Maybe you might say you'll be the first. But what have you guys done that are different from other's?

Not trying to be a negative Nancy, it's just not all trees are created equal.
 

Ayata

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The question is, if certain trees have no business staying indoors indefinitely, why do it when others before has tried and failed?

Maybe you might say you'll be the first. But what have you guys done that are different from other's?

Not trying to be a negative Nancy, it's just not all trees are created equal.

I agree with certain trees having no business indoors. I don't think maples can survive indoors, so I ll be surprised if OP's maple survives long.
There can be a few reasons to try and keep a bonsai indoors. For example I would love to have a mame Chinese Elm on my desk all year. So if I find out that this species survive only 1 season without dormancy, I might want to keep a mame sized elm tree indoors every other year and enjoy the sight of it for longer and closer to my living space. This is probably why all beginners want to buy a tree and keep it in, regardless of species. Bringing an ancient looking living tree to your home has an appeal to people especially in urban environments.
 

SlowMovingWaters

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I bought some 6'' plastic bonsai pots for my plants. Still no bonsai specific soil...

The roots on the chinese elm were crazy filling almost the entire pot it was growing in. (7x7x8'')

The others will be transplanted in a few days when the soil drys out more. Over all I think the plants are doing good. Also went to Odonal's nursery to buy a bonsai ended up going home with a shohin boxwood which will be grown indoors under lights as well.

I got rid of the pepper plants to give the bonsai's more room but might start a habanada to grow indoors over the winter. Haven't decided yet. Hope everyone is having a good day.
 

SlowMovingWaters

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Here are my bonsai's

Chinese Elm
JVnCbz8.jpg


Variegated Serissa
ito427N.jpg


Boxwood
4CZTuAx.jpg


New Pepper Bonsai (Unknown variety maybe Jimmy Nardello)
HLWiAg7.jpg


Hope you enjoy them
 

SlowMovingWaters

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I've used 400 watt HPS lamps for my orchids for over 30 years. They are great. Expensive to run but otherwise great. What are you doing about heat build up? I keep fans on 24/7 in the growing area. One fan exhausts heat to the outside.

Zone 9 and zone 10 tropicals are the main plants you should consider for your indoor only collection. Any member of the genus Ficus. I like bougainvillea. The ''Belgium hybrids" and other varieties of azalea that are intended for potted plants forcing market for the floral industry (not landscape industry) any of these azalea should do fine. Tropical Vireya Rhododendrons should be fine. some have leaves small enough for bonsai.

Citrus, if you are under 60 years old, citrus of most types make decent bonsai. BUT they take forever to become attractive. Bark is ugly green or green with white patchy bark for the first 20 years. Then somewhere about the time the trunk gets to 25 or 30 years old, it develops a wonderful texture and color. Brown in lemons and grapefruit to near black in kumquats. THe texture is usually a pebbled texture that is quite nice. But it takes time to get the bark. until then they are "kinda ugly".

Juniper procumbens is the only juniper that will reliably survive under lights. Some Cupressa, or Hesperocuppressa, Like the dwarf Mendocino Cypress will do well in year round under lights.
To the best of my knowledge, my attempts to grow Japanese black pine under 400 and 1000 watt HPS were failures. Or at least unsatisfactory after 18 months. I doubt there are any pines that will do well under lights.

The most shade tolerant pine I know of will also grow in zone 8 - Pinus glabra - the spruce pine - I have no experience, but my "Internet Knowledge" suggests this might be the only pine that might thrive under indoor light only. Worth the experiment. If it works for you, let us know.

Casuarina and Allocasuarina are 2 genera of Australian trees that superficially resemble pines, and might do well under lights. Worth checking out. Used a lot in Indonesian bonsai as a stand in for pines and junipers. I believe she-oak is one of the common names.

So have fun, ignore those that say it can never be done. Do accept that some trees will adapt and some will not. Your failures will be trees that need cool temperatures, and dormant rests.

But I know from experience that quite a number of trees can be raised under lights. My Bougainvillea has never been outside, even though I could put it outside. Its a small cutting, doesn't look like much but keeps blooming for me.

View attachment 262041

View attachment 262042

What are you doing about heat build up? I keep fans on 24/7 in the growing area. One fan exhausts heat to the outside.

I leave the doors to the grow tent open. It doesn't get to hot unless I close the door to the room which I don't do.
 

Cable

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Farewell and adieu to you, fair Spanish ladies.
Farewell and adieu, you ladies of Spain
For we've received orders for to sail back to Boston.
And so nevermore shall we see you again
 
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