My larch forest arrived today!

[WNC Bonsai]

As I mentioned elsewhere I ordered some American larch seedlings this past weekend. I was a bit hesitant since this is the middle of summer and shippnig plants in this heat can be dicey, let alone seedlings. But the price was right (big sale at $2.50 ea wheres the normal price is $12.60) and the guy said he would gurantee them for a year or more. So I ordered the last 10 in stock and crossed my fingers. The supplier is Holly Hills Nurseries. BTW they also sell Japanese larch seedlings.

They shippd them Monday afternoon and arrived here about 2PM today (Wednesday). I was impressed with the speed of the USPS as well as the quality of the packing. All roots/pots were in plastic bags and then wrapped in paper and laid flat in a long shipping box. This was definitely the best packing job I have seen for plants. They came out in good shape with a lot of nice green foliage and only a couple broken branches. They also tossed in an extra plant so I have an odd number of 11 for my forest.

I was impressed with how tall these plants are, well over 12” and some as big as a pencil, plus there is a nice variety in sizes. I really had expected little bare root seedlings with about 6” of tap root and 6”of stem. However these only have about 3” of root. As you can see from the photos below they were grown in these small plastic plug pots so should slip easily out of them and into larger nursery pots with little root disturbance. Since we are in the middle of several days of rain I watered them and set them in a 3 gal nursery pot out in the rain under a tree. I have 1 gal pots to put them in. Bsed on a writeup by Vance Wood on growing larch I plan to use my bonsai mix of 1/3 pumice, 1/3 stalite (heated expanded slate), and 1/3 tree bark (Natures Helper). This will then be cut 1/2 with fine sand. He says the sand makes them reduce needle length faster.

If they survive the shipping I will winter them outside and then grow them bigger next summer. Maybe by 2020 it will be time to arrange them into a forest. I kind of like Nigel’s idea of developing them first in a couple seedling trays before root pruning them and transferring to a flat bonsai tray. If all goes well this may be the beginning of a progression.

 

[GGB]

Whoa holly hill delivers in summer?! be right back...

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Well it finally stopped raining today so I was able to get some bonsai soil made up with the 50% sand fraction recommended by @Vance Wood and transfer them to these small nursery pots. I also measured them and the tallest is 25” above ground while most are in the 18-24” range. It appears that about half that is this years growth. These guys are so shade intolerent and apically dominant that they are constantly trying to outcompete anything else around them and reach for the sky. This creates problems when it comes to shaping the apex since it has to be constantly pruned back or the lower branches will be starved and die. It also means they tend to thicken up at the apex too creating the potential for reverse gradients and top knobs. As yet I’m not sure how to deal with that. Some of Nigel Saunders trees in his larch forest show that apical thickening. Bill at Holly Hills told me they were grown from seeds in the little plastic plug pots and have an amazingly small amount of roots supporting the above ground portion. I am expecting a major burst in root growth now that they have room to expand. Next summer should be very interesting to watch these little guys grow. At any rate here is a photo lineup of the 11 trees in their new pots.

 

[AlainK]

They look fine.

I've never repotted, or even thought about repotting Larch in August, but yours look just fine

 

[Silentrunning]

Well it finally stopped raining today so I was able to get some bonsai soil made up with the 50% sand fraction recommended by @Vance Wood and transfer them to these small nursery pots. I also measured them and the tallest is 25” above ground while most are in the 18-24” range. It appears that about half that is this years growth. These guys are so shade intolerent and apically dominant that they are constantly trying to outcompete anything else around them and reach for the sky. This creates problems when it comes to shaping the apex since it has to be constantly pruned back or the lower branches will be starved and die. It also means they tend to thicken up at the apex too creating the potential for reverse gradients and top knobs. As yet I’m not sure how to deal with that. Some of Nigel Saunders trees in his larch forest show that apical thickening. Bill at Holly Hills told me they were grown from seeds in the little plastic plug pots and have an amazingly small amount of roots supporting the above ground portion. I am expecting a major burst in root growth now that they have room to expand. Next summer should be very interesting to watch these little guys grow. At any rate here is a photo lineup of the 11 trees in their new pots.

You mean it actually stopped raining somewhere in N.C.?

I have wanted to get a Larch but wasn’t sure how it would do with our weather down here. I will be watching to see how yours do.

 

[M. Frary]

American larch seedlings

Tamaracks?

 

[WNC Bonsai]

They look fine.

I've never repotted, or even thought about repotting Larch in August, but yours look just fine

These came in little plastic plug pots about an inch in diameter amd 3-4 inches long. I basically was just slip potting them into the binsai mix without any real disturbance to the roots. I am hoping they will not skip a beat a d build some good roots going into the fall.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

You mean it actually stopped raining somewhere in N.C.?

I have wanted to get a Larch but wasn’t sure how it would do with our weather down here. I will be watching to see how yours do.

There is one in the arboretum collection in Asheville that has been growing here for decades. Arthur Joura told me they don’t give it any special treatment. I suspect it is the mountains with our cool nights, plus it rarely gets above 85 even in August. Don’t know your location but if you are in the mountains it should be OK.

 

[Silentrunning]

There is one in the arboretum collection in Asheville that has been growing here for decades. Arthur Joura told me they don’t give it any special treatment. I suspect it is the mountains with our cool nights, plus it rarely gets above 85 even in August. Don’t know your location but if you are in the mountains it should be OK.

I am north of Raleigh close to the Virginia state line. We have already had over 30 days at 90+ degrees and more to come if the rain quits. I’m afraid the heat would do those northern trees in real quick.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

I am north of Raleigh close to the Virginia state line. We have already had over 30 days at 90+ degrees and more to come if the rain quits. I’m afraid the heat would do those northern trees in real quick.

Grow more bald cypress and crepe myrtles. Larch woul be crispy critters in no time.

 

[Dav4]

You mean it actually stopped raining somewhere in N.C.?

I have wanted to get a Larch but wasn’t sure how it would do with our weather down here. I will be watching to see how yours do.

You have to be up in the mountains where the summers stay relatively cool and the winters are cold. The only American larch bonsai I know of to be kept long term south of PA is in the NC Arboretum Bonsai collection, and they have the facilities to give it the winter chill requirements it needs if they have abnormally warm winter weather. Where you are, I'd be looking at Dawn redwood or Bald cypress, or perhaps a Japanese larch, which may be a bit more heat tolerant.

 

[Silentrunning]

You have to be up in the mountains where the summers stay relatively cool and the winters are cold. The only American larch bonsai I know of to be kept long term south of PA is in the NC Arboretum Bonsai collection, and they have the facilities to give it the winter chill requirements it needs if they have abnormally warm winter weather. Where you are, I'd be looking at Dawn redwood or Bald cypress, or perhaps a Japanese larch, which may be a bit more heat tolerant.

Thanks Dav4. I have 2 Bald Cypress trees on the shore of my lake. I am going to let them grow for at least another year since the trunks are still a bit puny. I guess I will just enjoy looking at other peoples’ Larch trees.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Well time for an update. I lost one of the 11 larches recently. It was the weakest one in the shipment and probably was the extra one they toosed in to get rid of it. All the rest are healthy and haven’t skipped a beat since I slip potted them into the bigger pots. Here is a shot of the biggest ones.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

You handled the larch seedlings right, they survived. Either this year or next, in early spring, when you repot, you might find that in those "plug pots" the roots were not short, but rather folded up and down many times. It will take a number of years to correct the nebari of these seedlings. This is why purchasing bare root in early spring may be preferable to plug pots.

However, don't despair, they can send out enough new roots that in time the nebari can be fixed. Keep the roots buried deep enough that new roots can form over or above the folded knot of roots.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Thanks Leo. Yes the roots are a bit convoluted from being in that little tube but they are only about 3” long so it won’t take a lot of root reduction to clean them up over the next few years. Plus they grow very quickly so I expect the lateral root growth will allow me to incrememtally snip off the lower, older roots. I just wish I had a sunny enough location to plant them in the ground that I could keep wet enough for them. Next year I plan to move them to a large grow out flat for a few years to help thicken up the stems. This winter I need to cut back some of those long apexes which in a couple cases are almost 24” tall. I think I need to redirect some of that apical energy back down to the lower branches before they die back.

 

[rockm]

Larch south of Maryland are not all that hardy, including the Japanese larch.

I've had both kinds (although I'm in D.C. area which is akin to Dallas climate wise in the summer). Both have limped for years, then died off.

Larch bonsai are very hardy in areas only 40 miles north of here in Maryland. There are none south of D.C., or at least any that have been living for more than five, six or seven years.

The problem is primarily the length and duration of hot (and hot for larch is relative) days and extreme humidity. In areas south of the Mason Dixon line, summer nighttime temperatures linger well above 70 from June sometimes into late September. It is those hot nighttime temperatures that weaken and eventually kill larch.

It can take a while, even a few years, but one summer you will start to see yellowing foliage in July, followed by brown out of most of the needles by September. The tree may, or may not, try to refoliate itself. When "winter" comes, the tree will drop its needles. The following spring, the tree will push new growth, but not at the ends of the branches, and not in many places. This process will continue for a few years (five or six if you're lucky) until one early spring, the tree won't push any new needles--and the trunk will start looking wrinkled and withered, as it dies completely.

Not trying to be depressing, but I've had this same pattern repeat with all four of the larches I've tried over the years. They just don't like hot and humid...especially in the summer

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Larch south of Maryland are not all that hardy, including the Japanese larch.

I've had both kinds (although I'm in D.C. area which is akin to Dallas climate wise in the summer). Both have limped for years, then died off.

Larch bonsai are very hardy in areas only 40 miles north of here in Maryland. There are none south of D.C., or at least any that have been living for more than five, six or seven years.

The problem is primarily the length and duration of hot (and hot for larch is relative) days and extreme humidity. In areas south of the Mason Dixon line, summer nighttime temperatures linger well above 70 from June sometimes into late September. It is those hot nighttime temperatures that weaken and eventually kill larch.

It can take a while, even a few years, but one summer you will start to see yellowing foliage in July, followed by brown out of most of the needles by September. The tree may, or may not, try to refoliate itself. When "winter" comes, the tree will drop its needles. The following spring, the tree will push new growth, but not at the ends of the branches, and not in many places. This process will continue for a few years (five or six if you're lucky) until one early spring, the tree won't push any new needles--and the trunk will start looking wrinkled and withered, as it dies completely.

Not trying to be depressing, but I've had this same pattern repeat with all four of the larches I've tried over the years. They just don't like hot and humid...especially in the summer

Your points are well taken but you seem to have not read my earlier post above. There is at least one larch bonsai south of DC, here in Asheville and it hs been growing here since the mid-1970s. The original owner grew it here for 20 years beginning about 1975 before donating it to the bonsai collection in 1995. Specifically I wrote:

There is one in the arboretum collection here in Asheville that has been growing here for decades. Arthur Joura told me they don’t give it any special treatment. I suspect it is the mountains with our cool nights, plus it rarely gets above 85 even in August.

I lived in the DC area from 1955 until 2009 when I moved to Asheville so I am very familiar with the hot, hazy, humid summers there, and Asheville is nothing like that. So I am willing to give it a go.

 

[rockm]

Your points are well taken but you seem to have not read my earlier post above. There is at least one larch bonsai south of DC, here in Asheville and it hs been growing here since the mid-1970s. The original owner grew it here for 20 years beginning about 1975 before donating it to the bonsai collection in 1995. Specifically I wrote:



I lived in the DC area from 1955 until 2009 when I moved to Asheville so I am very familiar with the hot, hazy, humid summers there, and Asheville is nothing like that. So I am willing to give it a go.

I noted the tree you mentioned. It's in the ground. Not the same. Heat is "hotter" in a container, for the same reasons bridges freeze before the road leading up to them--air circulation on five sides--six if the bonsai is on a bench.

Asheville is Zone 7a/7b...I am in zone 7a/7b...

 

[WNC Bonsai]

No it is not in the ground. It is in a bonsai pot sitting in full sun in the display area at the WNC Arboretum. Here is a photo I took of it a month ago.....

 

[rockm]

OK. Good luck.