My last tree purchase of the year: Picea orientalis

[miker]

I was at Home Depot this evening looking at their selection of live Christmas trees, which were all grouped outside on the corner. I saw the same old dwarf alberta spruce, some kind of cypress and the $50 Colorado blue spruce in the fancy holiday pot, as well as the stone pine and some other cypress species kept inside.

There were a few others grouped further behind and then I saw it, a beefy, healthy, broadly conically shaped Oriental spruce in a 7 gallon pot. The height could not even be 3 feet tall and when I looked closely, the base, from what I could see is likely pushing 3" in diameter. It was the only one they had. Though it was $70 I was in love and had to have it!

Picea orientalis has been near the top of my list since moving north and this particular tree has clearly had several reductions, to train it to its current compact Christmas tree shape. But it is far from a spindly 3 foot sapling and I think with proper care and training it will make a fine bonsai someday, assuming it has no fatal flaws I have not seen yet.

Will be posting photos in the next hour or so.

It is safe and appropriate to do any sort of styling, pruning or other type of work on spruce in PA in December?

 

[Soldano666]

I would suggest yes. I work white s and blue spruce thru the winter. I would imagine Orientialis would fall into the same seasonal task schedule. But this is just my speculation maybe someone wiser will chime in and reassure us... I saw some of theses this summer but neglected to pull the trigger on one. I've stumbled across some native red spruce around me that have the same small almost tiny needles. I guess I'll have to go digging this spring

 

[miker]

No photos of the tree's interior just yet. Once I am able to do some pruning and a repotting and get a look at the nebari, that will give me a much better idea of what I am working with. Has a fairly thick trunk though.

One other question...the tag says simply Oriental spruce and Picea orientalis. Is this likely the species or a cultivar?

 

[Soldano666]

If it were mine, I'd remove a good 34-45% of branches you won't use and crotch growth. This will open up the trunk and give you some options to start wiring. Let it fully recover next summer. (One insult per year like most conifers) maybe dig down to find your surface roots a lil come spring time but I'd wait on a repot til spring 2018. This is just my opinion on a safe approach to working this thing. Looks like a big healthy chunk of material. I'd hate to do too much and have it sulk for year or two setting you back even further on the development train.

 

[justBonsai]

I've seen a nice amount of blue spruce material with large trunks and aged bark that would make for decent formal upright material. I'm waiting for after Christmas when they hopefully slash prices on these seasonal trees so I can nab a good deal.

 

[augustine]

Personally I would open this tree up by removing some branches, not too many. Can be done now but not if tree is frozen so you better place it where it won't freeze tonight and next few days. Sun and air must get into the interior of the tree otherwise interior foliage will die off not to mention potential problems from lack of air circulation. I would definitely repot this spring, get it out of the nursery soil. Do not bareroot more than half (maybe a third, depends). This tree was grown in the field and the soil may be dense (but I don't know)

The thing with Spruce is trying to maintain foliage close to the trunk. So you have to make sure that light can get in there so inner foliage does not die off any more. I have never worked with orientalis but from what I've read it is a good species and needles are nice and short. You also need to know how to manage the foliage by pinching, there is some good info on Bonsai4me.com. Don't pinch in 17. (removing branches, pinching, etc really depends on health, soil and condition of tree.) Since the tree is so bushy I wonder how much foliage is close to the trunk. This tree has been sheared to be a Christmas tree shape.

Lots of sun and they are pretty thirsty in active growth. Fertilize regularly but not to excess. Give it a bit of shade if it gets real hot. When weather gets warm hose it off real good a couple of times a week to keep spider mites at bay ( a strong blast of water from garden hose.)

Remember if you start to train this tree and become discouraged, plant it in the ground (early October). It will respond much better for training the foliage, pinching etc. What I'm thinking is that you're going to have branches that are too long and not enough interior foliage to cut back far enough. Even if it's going to go into the ground you still want to start reducing and working the rootball

I like spruce very much but they are not easy to train for bonsai.

 

[BobbyLane]

I was just interested to know why this particular variety of spruce was on your wish list.... its certainly not a common one, ive only seen them for sale on a german website and not seen any other examples of them as bonsai. have you seen many examples yourself? do share if you have....i would have thought there were other varieties better suited to your climate, but like i said, ive only recently heard of this variety.

From wiki
Picea orientalis, commonly known as the Oriental spruce or Caucasian spruce, is a species of spruce native to the Caucasus and adjacent northeast Turkey. Wikipedia

Scientific name: Picea orientalis
Higher classification: Spruce
Rank: Species

btw, if it was mine i'd do some of what others have said, remove what you dont want, keep as much buds on the keeper branches as possible. branches with no buds are goners, they can be removed now. you could have a dig around in the soil and check for decent nebari....ive bought a few conifers in the last few months, i plan on re potting them all in spring....but not bare rooting them, just cutting around the root balls and replacing the soil over a period of time. ive never had any luck with bare rooting conifers.

 

[Paradox]

I agree with removing a few branches now if it's not frozen. BUT, do not remove too much at one time (season).

 

[barrosinc]

try to get a pic of the trunk and nebari.

I thought I had a picea orientalis (unlabeled tree), but if this is correctly labeled, mine isn't.

But spruces are in my soft spot right now.

 

[GGB]

I don't think it's a cultivar, even the the cheapest and most half-assed garden centers include a cultivar name, in my experience. I bet it's a true orientalis

 

[miker]

An overall shot of the same tree after a hard prune in the past couple weeks.

A closer view.

Best view of the base, badly needs all of the old needles cleared away and likely a bit of the soil removed to really expose the nebari.

 

[miker]

So I think the tree has an excellent thick base (relative to its height) from what I can tell and good taper as well, though there is an area where reverse taper is evident about 1/3 of the way up the tree.

This coming spring, I plan to further clean up and expose the base, but not do any repotting. Hopefully I can get some good back budding closer to the trunk, especially the lower portion over the next couple years, then take it from there.

I looked for this species in particular, because it was my first spruce I ever attempted when I found a small neglected specimen at a nursery in Northern Va in early 2001 and killed it in a year or so due to my lack of knowledge. More recently, I have read that Picea orientalis is an excellent choice for bonsai as spruce species go, so I had to get another, now that I am back in the north.

 

[augustine]

I agree, very nice trunk and good decision not to repot in 17. You've removed a lot of foliage, but I think it will be fine.

Good luck, I like your spruce.

 

[Vance Wood]

If it were mine, I'd remove a good 34-45% of branches you won't use and crotch growth. This will open up the trunk and give you some options to start wiring. Let it fully recover next summer. (One insult per year like most conifers) maybe dig down to find your surface roots a lil come spring time but I'd wait on a repot til spring 2018. This is just my opinion on a safe approach to working this thing. Looks like a big healthy chunk of material. I'd hate to do too much and have it sulk for year or two setting you back even further on the development train.

It is a specie.

 

[miker]

I agree, definitely not a cultivar, just plain ole Picea orientalis, which is what I wanted.

 

[sorce]

I'd like to see this in the challenge.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

Or 20 bucks says you buy just one more!

Sorce

 

[miker]

Unfortunately Sorce, they only had one, which is part of the reason I had to have it!

I did a bit more pruning last night and it definitely has a good 3 inch trunk. Give it 10 years, and I think it could make a fine bonsai.

 

[miker]

Red pot challenge?!

 

[just.wing.it]

Cool spruce!
I have 2 small picea abies that I'll be toying with...
Looks like fun!