My new azalea cultivar

HorseloverFat

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Spectacularly thorough and impressive!!

I bet your a fan of “obsessive note-taking.” (Me too)

You are really “livin’ the dream!”

Is there REALLY any other lifestyle than this??

😂
 

Deep Sea Diver

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Keep up the awesome experimenting. I’m sure you’ll find something magnificent!

Cheers
DAD sends
 

Harunobu

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Kind of a summer update on something I am starting to notice. Let's compare the seedling Axe-10-04 with Axe-10-21. Axe-10-04 had the nice kinda dark red shiny flowers, well presented. I didn't do a full article on Axe-10-21 as the flower colour was not a really nice shade of purple and the flower type is really has a species vibe over a cultivar vibe; not elegant and refined. Also, Axe-10-21 flowers are actually really large, and because of their weight hanging/drooping down a bit even when not wet. But now the plant habit of Axe-10-21 starts to pop out. This in stark contrast of the plant habit of Axe-10-04, which is really questionable.

Axe-10-21
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Axe-10-21 has very dark green leaves that are just nicely formed. And growing pretty quickly. And it is backbudding out now that it has all the space it needs.


But Axe-10-04 seems to have gone partially dormant. The green is gone from many leaves. And there isn't that much new growth. Pretty sure this is normal behavior for this individual. Many leaves are so low in chlorophyll that they appear red.

Axe-10-04
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If only the flowers of Axe-10-04 had appeared on the plant of Axe-10-21.


I found that I still had some seeds from 2018, which I couldn't sow in winter 2018-2019, and then forgot about them. So I found them about 1.5 weeks ago and sowed them. They still seem to germinate quite well, despite being 1.5 years old. Seeds are open pollinated from As-12-04. So these are getting a head start over whatever I can harvest and sow in a couple of months. So these will be the first of the second wave new plants.

1596893415084.png
 
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pweifan

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I'm so intrigued by the process. Thank you so much for documenting this! If you want to see if seeds travel well, I'd be happy to try them out for you ;) Please keep posting your progress!
 

Harunobu

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I'm so intrigued by the process. Thank you so much for documenting this! If you want to see if seeds travel well, I'd be happy to try them out for you ;) Please keep posting your progress!

If you are intrigued and like azaleas, you should give it a shot. Yes, seeds travel well and after harvesting I will post a list of stuff here because I promised seeds to people here already, and others are interested. Of course, it is most fun to make your own crosses with your own favourite azaleas or chasing your own breeding goals.

You can also look around in your neighbourhood and find local azaleas you really and check if they have seed pods on them currently, so you can harvest them in mid to late November. You are in a continental zone 6. So if you make your own crosses, you should go with crossing a winter hardy azalea with a nice looking azalea. 100% satsuki likely won't be that reliable as garden plants.

Compared to bonsai, it takes a lot less skill. And the bad result with bonsai is that your bonsai dies. The bad result with growing from seed is that your seedlings are all ugly ducks. You actually want your weaklings to die. So not being on top of your game horticulture-wise can be a strategy.
 

pweifan

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You can also look around in your neighbourhood and find local azaleas you really and check if they have seed pods on them currently, so you can harvest them in mid to late November. You are in a continental zone 6. So if you make your own crosses, you should go with crossing a winter hardy azalea with a nice looking azalea. 100% satsuki likely won't be that reliable as garden plants.

Thank you for this advice. I know of some gorgeous local azaleas. I will look to see if any of them go to seed this November :)
 

Harunobu

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I made a list of all crosses/seed pods I have on my plants right now:

I put my name in 'Status' to all that I intend to grow. Those may still become available if I run out of space after sowing most of them.
Many are available to people here, though. (Especially a few plants with tons of open pollinated flowers where the pollen parent is unknown). I putatively put some names of people here in a few cells, based on conversations I had here. I also tried to predict what type of seedlings to expect, but this is very speculative, of course.

So if people are interested in certain crosses, let me know. I think it is best to send all seeds of a specific cross to the same person. I may have miscounted some pods, of course. And some plants, especially Kozan and Hekisui, I fear that pods will contain very few seed (maybe 10 or so). But for Hakusen I expect 100 seeds per pod on the biggest ones.

I think most people will be able to find the parents. Most satsuki can be found on satsukimania.com
My own plants are here in this topic (except maybe Mxk-12-02).
 

Pitoon

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I made a list of all crosses/seed pods I have on my plants right now:

I put my name in 'Status' to all that I intend to grow. Those may still become available if I run out of space after sowing most of them.
Many are available to people here, though. (Especially a few plants with tons of open pollinated flowers where the pollen parent is unknown). I putatively put some names of people here in a few cells, based on conversations I had here. I also tried to predict what type of seedlings to expect, but this is very speculative, of course.

So if people are interested in certain crosses, let me know. I think it is best to send all seeds of a specific cross to the same person. I may have miscounted some pods, of course. And some plants, especially Kozan and Hekisui, I fear that pods will contain very few seed (maybe 10 or so). But for Hakusen I expect 100 seeds per pod on the biggest ones.

I think most people will be able to find the parents. Most satsuki can be found on satsukimania.com
My own plants are here in this topic (except maybe Mxk-12-02).

Excellent work!!! House projects have pulled me away from the plants these past couple of weeks.
 

pweifan

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I made a list of all crosses/seed pods I have on my plants right now:

I put my name in 'Status' to all that I intend to grow. Those may still become available if I run out of space after sowing most of them.
Many are available to people here, though. (Especially a few plants with tons of open pollinated flowers where the pollen parent is unknown). I putatively put some names of people here in a few cells, based on conversations I had here. I also tried to predict what type of seedlings to expect, but this is very speculative, of course.

So if people are interested in certain crosses, let me know. I think it is best to send all seeds of a specific cross to the same person. I may have miscounted some pods, of course. And some plants, especially Kozan and Hekisui, I fear that pods will contain very few seed (maybe 10 or so). But for Hakusen I expect 100 seeds per pod on the biggest ones.

I think most people will be able to find the parents. Most satsuki can be found on satsukimania.com
My own plants are here in this topic (except maybe Mxk-12-02).

I'm definitely interested in any seeds you might have available! Thank you very much :) Let me know if there's anything I can do to repay the favor!

EDIT: I just saw that the Hekisui x Kobai cross was available. I'm definitely interested in that one.
 
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Harunobu

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I'm definitely interested in any seeds you might have available! Thank you very much :) Let me know if there's anything I can do to repay the favor!

EDIT: I just saw that the Hekisui x Kobai cross was available. I'm definitely interested in that one.

I actually put your name in for 'Kistin' open pollinated.

My logic being that it is a European azalea and likely very winter-hardy. But you might not like it at all. All satsuki are more questionable in zone 6. I bought 'Kirstin' to cross with satsuki next year. But it came with seed pods. I don't have many crosses that definitely will do well in zone 6.
Next year I want to try 'Suisen' x 'Kirstin' to get hardy large flowering azaleas with satsuki blood and thick (triploid) petals.

The Hekisui x Kobai is just one small seed pod. It might be logical to pool that single Hekisui x Kobai seed pod with all the open pollinated Hekisui seed pods and send them to you.

I promised @fredman and @KiwiPlantGuy seeds months ago though, so they have some priority over you, pweifan. But I think there will be plenty for everyone. So I did put in your name for that cross as well as Hekisui x unknown.

Hekisui is one of my favourite azaleas, but the seed pods on it are very small. Hekisui(and Aozora) is nice for small bonsai as well. It has some pollen though, so next year I will try to do controlled pollination using Hekisui pollen and a good seed parent. I'll put your name for the Hekisui x unknown and Hekisui x Kobai.

MxK-12-02 and MxK-12-03 have tons of seeds. But while MxK-12-03 seems like a decent to good white-flowering cultivar, it is my own seedling and thus kind of unproven.
 
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pweifan

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Feel free to distribute the seeds however you wish! I appreciate you thinking of me. :)

I've been able to successfully over-winter satsuki in a cold frame so they never get below freezing.
 

Forsoothe!

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I have 6 Satsuki overwintered like all my other trees on the ground and mulched with leaves last winter and another in the landscape for 3 or 4 years. Fresh seedlings might be more tender, but what's the problem? Sounds like a lineage problem?
 

Deep Sea Diver

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Hi @Harunobu

I’d like to request seeds from one of your crosses. Anything you think would do well in Puget Sound.

I like smaller multicolored azalea, but will take whatever color you have just to try raising from seeds on my own.

Let me know and thank you for this offer to folks!
DSD sends
 

Harunobu

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I have 6 Satsuki overwintered like all my other trees on the ground and mulched with leaves last winter and another in the landscape for 3 or 4 years. Fresh seedlings might be more tender, but what's the problem? Sounds like a lineage problem?

Do you know the variety and did you have actual zone 6 cold winters? The thing with satsuki here in the Netherlands is, they were the first azalea to arrive from Japan in the west. There are many drawings of Rhododendron indicum and similar plants in old books. So people took an interest in these plants. The oldest one is probably 'Breynii' and dated 1680. Yet in our gardens today, we only have kurume. And many of them are ones hybridized in Europe for additional hardiness. So the conclusion was that satsuki are not hardy in Europe in zone 7 and 6.

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And even in the second half of the 20th century, with now American satsuki-type hybrids (Glenn Dale, Harris, Robin Hill, others) and satsuki bonsai being imported, azalea nurserymen here still decided satsuki would not be winter hardy. But of course the climate also changed. I just haven't seen many people report 'hardy in zone 6' for many satsuki. For example, Monrovia states 'zone 7 to 9' for the famous satsuku 'Juko' (as well as most other satsuki they have). Only 'Tama no Hada' they rate at zone 6. So for this reason I still want to try to cross satsuki with very hardy azaleas. All I know from my own experience is that everything I have grown, satsuki cultivar, my own seedlings, all survived -8 C.
Just something to be aware that satsuki aren't definitely hardy in zone 6. And I didn't make any crosses this year that enhance the hardiness of the satsuki (except the Girard's Fuchsia cross). I am still considering buying a zone 6 hardy white azalea to cross with. (Kind of want to use Maischnee).

That said, there is a Czech nursery that lists 'Haru no Sono' to -21 C. But hot summers are key to winter hardiness with satsuki, I have been told.
It sucks though to have a really nice plant but have a once in 25 years frost kill it.
 
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Harunobu

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Hi @Harunobu

I’d like to request seeds from one of your crosses. Anything you think would do well in Puget Sound.

I like smaller multicolored azalea, but will take whatever color you have just to try raising from seeds on my own.

Let me know and thank you for this offer to folks!
DSD sends

Won't they all do well there? I have tons of MxK-12-03 and Hakusen both open pollinated. But there will probably also still be a specific cross available. Best for you would of course be a specific cross of two small flowering multicoloured satsuki. For next year, I can try to make some Kobai x Hekisui. That sets seeds well, but I think I reserved thees for myself this year.
 

KiwiPlantGuy

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Hi, Great spreadsheet !!
I have sent you PM re other one, thanks
Kobai x Miharu
Charles
 

Harunobu

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Hi, Great spreadsheet !!
I have sent you PM re other one, thanks
Kobai x Miharu
Charles

I put you in for Hakusen x Miharu as well.

Hakusen x unknown will be many thousands of seeds. Two plants filled with large pods. I could probably supply 5 or more people with plenty to sow.
I myself suspect these are self-fertilized. But many azalea experts say azalea have mechanisms to block and keep out self-pollen. So in that case the pollen could come from many of the other satsuki around it.
Either way, it will be (Suisen x Gekkeikan) x unknown. Definitely more something for a flower display/meika style variety. But who knows where the pollen came from.

Hakusen picture
 

Kanorin

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As a scientist and someone who loves creating new things, I’m loving this thread. Keep up the good work!

@Harunobu, are there strains that are more likely to create those “sports” than others? It seems like the sport itself will not be heritable, but the propensity to throw sports might be (a particularly unstable transposon within a pigment gene).
 
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