My new black pine

IrishCrow

Mame
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Hey everyone. I just picked this black pine up for about 40 bucks. I'm going to cut most of it back to make a literati out of it. I'll keep posting progress pics. But for now this is the new tree.
 

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jeanluc83

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I would say that $40 was a bit much. You would have been better off picking up some bare root seedlings in the spring. In 2 or 3 years you would have been ahead of what you have now.

That said the tree you got is not bad. It does look like it is a bit on the weak side though. I would fertilize through fall and watch for over watering.

I would get wire on the tree this fall. For literati you are going to need to introduce a lot of subtle movement into that trunk to pull off a literati.

In the spring I would repot into a colander. Keep it in full sun and fertilize heavily. You will need to keep an eye of the wire and remove when it starts to cut in.

Good luck. This could be a fun project.
 

IrishCrow

Mame
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I hope the pot is worth $30.
My issue Brian is theres only one place around my place that sells any type of bonsai material. So i either have to go there or online and im afraid to order off the net because its very easy to get screwed. So if i want to have material i know is good because i can look at it in my own hand i have to pay a bit more than usual. Ive only been doing this a year so finding places to go for decent material is still new to me. And when i turn here to get info from people who has been doing this a long time and end up getting replies with smart ass comments is very discouraging for new people. So to you all whos are bonsai masters.... Not everyone
I would say that $40 was a bit much. You would have been better off picking up some bare root seedlings in the spring. In 2 or 3 years you would have been ahead of what you have now.

That said the tree you got is not bad. It does look like it is a bit on the weak side though. I would fertilize through fall and watch for over watering.

I would get wire on the tree this fall. For literati you are going to need to introduce a lot of subtle movement into that trunk to pull off a literati.

In the spring I would repot into a colander. Keep it in full sun and fertilize heavily. You will need to keep an eye of the wire and remove when it starts to cut in.

Good luck. This could be a fun project.
Hi Jean.. Thanks for the info. I really appreciate the heads up. ive been doing it for a year so im still very new. One of my biggest problems is around my area there is only one place that sells bonsai material thats worth using. And still being new theres very few places i know online that has good material. So im kinda in a rock and hard place lol. But i really appreciate the way you explained it. It seems like every time i ask a question or post something i get smart a** people making stupid comments back.. Theres very few people who actually explains the info to new people. Its a very discouraging place for new people. But your time is very appreciated and ill be following your instructions. Hope you have a nice day.
 

Nybonsai12

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Join the facebook pages, Bonsai Auctions, 99cent bonsai.. Lots of different things for sale each week, pots, soil, trees, etc...being sold for the most part by trustworthy people in the bonsai community.
 

Brian Van Fleet

Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
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My issue Brian is theres only one place around my place that sells any type of bonsai material. So i either have to go there or online and im afraid to order off the net because its very easy to get screwed. So if i want to have material i know is good because i can look at it in my own hand i have to pay a bit more than usual. Ive only been doing this a year so finding places to go for decent material is still new to me. And when i turn here to get info from people who has been doing this a long time and end up getting replies with smart ass comments is very discouraging for new people. So to you all whos are bonsai masters.... Not everyone
Well, at least you got screwed in person. Nature’s Way is in Harrisburg, and while he’s expensive, he will have some quality material. You just bought 10 years of frustration with this pine...if you keep it alive that long. Pines need to be grown for bonsai from day one, unless you really know what you’re doing, in which case you’d have walked by this one.

There are reputable sellers online if you know what you’re looking for and who to buy from. I’d be happy to send you some links to trusted sellers and better material if you’re serious, but usually those offers fall into the the “no good deed goes unpunished” category because quality costs more money. For example, this one is on eBay for $170, and while it’s not perfect, the trunk has some taper and movement, and the branches have foliage close to the trunk. Perfect starter for someone wanting to learn JBP techniques:
https://www.ebay.com/i/201959708078

So the question becomes, how badly do you want to work with JBP? You can struggle with this $40 tree to learn in 5 years that JBP techniques aren’t making this tree better, and aren’t advancing the design. Or is worth saving up a little and starting with something that can teach you the basics of JBP techniques and have something to enjoy along the way?

If someone had told me this in 1998, I would be 10 years ahead of where I am now with my jbp.
 

Giga

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Well, at least you got screwed in person. Nature’s Way is in Harrisburg, and while he’s expensive, he will have some quality material. You just bought 10 years of frustration with this pine...if you keep it alive that long. Pines need to be grown for bonsai from day one, unless you really know what you’re doing, in which case you’d have walked by this one.

There are reputable sellers online if you know what you’re looking for and who to buy from. I’d be happy to send you some links to trusted sellers and better material if you’re serious, but usually those offers fall into the the “no good deed goes unpunished” category because quality costs more money. For example, this one is on eBay for $170, and while it’s not perfect, the trunk has some taper and movement, and the branches have foliage close to the trunk. Perfect starter for someone wanting to learn JBP techniques:
https://www.ebay.com/i/201959708078

So the question becomes, how badly do you want to work with JBP? You can struggle with this $40 tree to learn in 5 years that JBP techniques aren’t making this tree better, and aren’t advancing the design. Or is worth saving up a little and starting with something that can teach you the basics of JBP techniques and have something to enjoy along the way?

If someone had told me this in 1998, I would be 10 years ahead of where I am now with my jbp.

This is very true, I have to agree 100%
 

rockm

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Nature's Way is an excellent source and you're pretty darn close to Harrisburg.

http://www.natureswaybonsai.com/

There's also Rosade Bonsai Studio in New Hope
http://www.rosadebonsai.com/

Both are excellent sources of all kinds of bonsai stuff including stock and "finished" trees. They have high end and beginner stuff and you get what you see...

In my experience, people just starting out don't do themselves any favors shopping online. Lots of choices among mostly crappy material from a variety of questionable sellers. There are some excellent sellers online, but there are five times more crummy ones.

Harrisburg and New Hope may seem like long drives for you--assuming you have a vehicle---, but they're not. You're not only making the trip to see what's for sale, but see what's worthwhile and get a better idea and feel for bonsai.
 

chansen

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To echo (again), you're a lot closer to good material than you think. If Nature's Way was less than 2 hours from me, I'd be there often. I know you feel like you're in the bonsai desert, but I'm even farther. The Portland Oregon area is 11 hours from me, as are most of the bonsai nurseries in CA. Otherwise it's standard nursery stock (which I buy less and less). I still made it to Portland twice this year. Once for a weekend intensive with Michael Hagedorn, and once for the salmon run. Both times I took the extra 1 hour drive from my brother's place in Portland to get to Telperion Farms to buy trees.

I think this is a reality for many people... there just aren't a lot of bonsai nurseries around.

When I was early on in my bonsai life, I visited Garden's Unlimited in the middle of nowhere Virginia (rockm told me about them). Seeing finished trees, and seeing trees in progress was a great learning tool. So even if you don't end up bringing something home, I think the visits would be worth it. Bonsai is something that you no one has learned quickly.
 

chansen

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Join the facebook pages, Bonsai Auctions, 99cent bonsai.. Lots of different things for sale each week, pots, soil, trees, etc...being sold for the most part by trustworthy people in the bonsai community.
Also, I'll give this a second. I bought a huge Chinese quince from one of the facebook pages, and have been super happy with it. If you have questions about tree quality, don't be afraid to ask here.
 

Adair M

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Please don't cut it back anytime soon!

It needs to get healthy first.

This spring, take it out of that pot. It looks like they really had to work to get the thing tied down into that pot. I see no radial roots. Which you want. So extensive root work is needed. Start with a half bare root repot. Then let it grow in a colander.

You have a very young tree. A literati is typically an old tree. Geriatric, in fact. Lucky for you, JBP will make flakey bark at a relatively young age. But it will take a long, long time to become an effective literati.
 

GrimLore

Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
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Please don't cut it back anytime soon!

It needs to get healthy first.

This spring, take it out of that pot. It looks like they really had to work to get the thing tied down into that pot. I see no radial roots. Which you want. So extensive root work is needed. Start with a half bare root repot. Then let it grow in a colander.

You have a very young tree. A literati is typically an old tree. Geriatric, in fact. Lucky for you, JBP will make flakey bark at a relatively young age. But it will take a long, long time to become an effective literati.

I just told him the same thing less then an hour ago on the phone! ;)

Grimmy
 

IrishCrow

Mame
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Well, at least you got screwed in person. Nature’s Way is in Harrisburg, and while he’s expensive, he will have some quality material. You just bought 10 years of frustration with this pine...if you keep it alive that long. Pines need to be grown for bonsai from day one, unless you really know what you’re doing, in which case you’d have walked by this one.

There are reputable sellers online if you know what you’re looking for and who to buy from. I’d be happy to send you some links to trusted sellers and better material if you’re serious, but usually those offers fall into the the “no good deed goes unpunished” category because quality costs more money. For example, this one is on eBay for $170, and while it’s not perfect, the trunk has some taper and movement, and the branches have foliage close to the trunk. Perfect starter for someone wanting to learn JBP techniques:
https://www.ebay.com/i/201959708078

So the question becomes, how badly do you want to work with JBP? You can struggle with this $40 tree to learn in 5 years that JBP techniques aren’t making this tree better, and aren’t advancing the design. Or is worth saving up a little and starting with something that can teach you the basics of JBP techniques and have something to enjoy along the way?

If someone had told me this in 1998, I would be 10 years ahead of where I am now with my jbp.
Ya ide appreciate if you can give me the info to better vendors. But this isn't my first tree. I do know you have to pay for quality. Ide rather spend a extra $100 to get something that is in good shape. So if you can send me the links ide appreciate it.
 

IrishCrow

Mame
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Please don't cut it back anytime soon!

It needs to get healthy first.

This spring, take it out of that pot. It looks like they really had to work to get the thing tied down into that pot. I see no radial roots. Which you want. So extensive root work is needed. Start with a half bare root repot. Then let it grow in a colander.

You have a very young tree. A literati is typically an old tree. Geriatric, in fact. Lucky for you, JBP will make flakey bark at a relatively young age. But it will take a long, long time to become an effective literati.
Thanks Adair. I appreciate your input. Would it be ok to slip pot it this year?
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
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Wait until spring. Then do a proper repot.

If you don't know about "Half bare root" reports, search this forum and you should find info about them.

Also, Jonas' blog www.bonsaitonight.com has tons of info about JBP.
 
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