My Running Man Juniper

[MaverickLancer]

A few months ago, I was lucky enough to win a juniper from a club raffle. It was donated by one of the older members who just couldn't keep up with the tree anymore. I was still extremely new and was thrilled to have won such a big juniper. Little did I realize what I was in for.




As I began to learn more, I started working on cleaning it out. The tree was allowed to run for a LONG time, and its original shape was lost. The inside was completely shaded out, and the tree was so pot bound that I wasn't actually able to water it. The liquid would just sit on the surface for about 10 minutes. What I assume was once potting soil is now a rock hard cake. I slip potted it into a training pot and am forced to completely soak the pot about once a week, in addition to normal watering.

I also noticed that one side was almost completely browning. I took it over to Chikugo-en to have Gary Ishii look at it, and with one smell he immediately noticed that it was cat spray.

In a preliminary effort to chase some foliage back, I tipped some of the more vigorous growing branches. I mostly cut back into lignified wood and removed entire stems - I did not shorten any tips. I made sure to leave a good number of growing tips on each. However, by doing so, I was left with a VERY leggy tree. Some preliminary wiring was done to move crossing branches and allow the inside to get more sun. Some branches were also further lowered in an attempt to compact the tree a bit. The crown is a complete mess, with long 6-8 inch branches swirling around each other, with all growth on the last 1" of each.


(Sorry for the bad photo... I'll take some better ones when I get home later)


After reading @sawgrass 's latest post, I'm starting to wonder if I'm really just wasting my time. The trunk is relatively thin for the tree's size, so I've been thinking about just jinning the top or making a grafting project of this. Since it was allowed to run, one of the top branches is actually thicker than the trunk.

Is it worth chasing this juniper? I can already see it's going to be a long uphill race.

 

[A Random User]

My own personal suggestion would be to walk through the problems of the tree and see where the solutions might be...

So, first off... you say the tree is very leggy and has a thin trunk. Unless you are willing to spend the time either chasing back foliage, or as others might suggest graft new foliage onto the tree and grow it out. Which in the post you were referring to I mentioned it is much easier to grow out the chase back, you would be left with the alternative of a redesign.

So, for me, the two problems work to create a solution... the tree has a thin trunk, so naturally the amount of foliage the tree has does not support the scale of the trunk. So, right off the bat, for me i would say it needs to be either thinned out, or have branches removed entirely.

The foliage is to far out, so for me it needs to have the worse parts cut back or the branches removed in their entirety. So, these two problems work to create the same out come and solve the same problem.

So, if this was a tree I was working on and I didn't want to chase back or graft, I would let the tree tell me what to make of it. I would throw the whole design of what it used to be, of course this is assuming it is not some legacy tree where one wanted to preserve the tree as close to how or whom ever styled it because of who might of done the work, and would instead search for the new tree within.

So, right off the bat I would look for the area that has the best usable foliage and branch structure, that is as tight as possible. As well as the most. This tree is clearly full of juvenile foliage... so unless one can find adult within, this will be an obstacle that only time will solve. However, opening up the tree will increase this process.

 

[Eric Group]

As a learning project, sure... You might do some grafts on this tree... But is the trunk you have here worth the effort to graft all new foliage on it?

That is the real question... And where are you getting the new foliage? Are you going to approach graft Shimpaku whips? Do you have 10-15 of them lying around Right now? No? Then you have to go BUY them, right? Is the trunk you have worth the MONEY you have to spend to get the material to graft onto it?

I think you just work this tree with a "caution to the wind/ either it makes it and gets better, or it DOESN'T" approach. Repot it- FULLY- in the Spring, prune it back as far as you can while still leaving some foliage, remove the branches you don't want to keep- or make Jins- shorten the ones you do we ant to keep... Get the tree on track and if it makes it- GREAT! If not... Oh well, you gave it your best shot and didn't lose a big investment, after all you won it! At least you will learn a lot from the experience. If the tree is moderately healthy and your care is decent it should survive and start back budding for you a couple months after the repot.

 

[benw3790]

If it were mine, id clean out all the dead and brown areas, remove branches that you know you dont want in the final design pimch out crotch growth and try to make a literati/bunjin type of tree with it, since the trunk is on the thinner side... like maybe when the time is right, you could eliminate all the foliage on the right and use the top left foliage to build your pads. What you'd be left with is a nice trunk line with no interruptions and some possibly cool jins on the right side. and a nice mass of foliage on the top/left.

 

[A Random User]

Just out of curiosity, can you take the second photo into the paint program on your computer and with a bright color, drawn the line over the top of the tree of how the tree's trunk flows, and post u a separate picture so, we could see it?

 

[MaverickLancer]

Just out of curiosity, can you take the second photo into the paint program on your computer and with a bright color, drawn the line over the top of the tree of how the tree's trunk flows, and post u a separate picture so, we could see it?

I finally had some time to take a few pictures! The first is what the original front was, where the two lower branches and apex curved towards the viewer.




Also an image of the back



And a few shots to better show the trunk line.

 

[MaverickLancer]

This tree really doesn't photograph well, so maybe a 360 video will help?

If I go bunjin with this, my initial thought would be something along these lines. I feel like that line has the most movement. The other branches are fairly large, so I would need to do some carving to make them into convincing jin. I'm not quite sure how the pads would lay out though. I would definitely try guy wiring the trunk for a more compact look.

 

[Smoke]

This is the tree. Everything else is garbage.

 

[sorce]

That's what I was thinking.

Smoke it!

Sorce

 

[jk_lewis]

The tree is a mess. It truly "runs" off in every possible direction. And, as you say there is too much foliage for the diameter of that trunk.

When that is the case, it often is easiest to make a smaller tree out of it. When the tree is shorter, that same trunk diameter looks thicker.

So, choose ONE direction for the tree to move. Cut away (some jins would be acceptable) most everything that doesn't fit that movement, and start the redesign that way.

TAKE IT SLOWLY. There's no UNdoing.

 

[armetisius]

Lance,
you might want to take this tree back in stages--cutting of some this season and more in the next--as you said it was in need of some "care".
Always keep in mind "kindling does not grow"; keep the emphasis on alive & healthy.

 

[MaverickLancer]

This is the tree. Everything else is garbage.
View attachment 79405

Thanks for the honesty. Sometimes it's hard to accept cutting that much of a tree, but I'd much rather save myself time now and find the bonsai that actually lies within, rather than trying to grow back the bush it was.

I have three possible fronts:


The second image has a pigeon-breast type movement to it, while the first image features the awkward deadwood at the bottom. I'm thinking of using the third.

There are also two branch lines I might use. Unfortunately, this was the branch that the cat spray hit, so both have a lot of browning foliage. However, I think the left one is a bit stronger since it would be closer to the viewer.



I'd like to jin part of the original trunk, but I can't quite see any way it would really work? If I raffia and guy wire the new trunk, I'm hoping to get something resembling this:




Any opinions or input if I'm headed in the right direction are appreciated. Thanks for all of the feedback so far!

 

[M. Frary]

You said breast.

 

[sorce]

I like it.

Like JKL said. Take it slow!

You said pigeon.

Sorce

 

[jk_lewis]

This might work. It gives the tree direction. The planting angle is changed just a bit

 

[MaverickLancer]

Progress Update:

I stared at this tree all last night and concluded that I would likely benefit most from this by using it as a learning experience. And so I threw caution to the wind and started to chop. I wanted to avoid completely cutting away the old trunk line, electing to see if I could work a jin into the design.

Here's what I had before I ran out of time this morning (I'll come back and clean the jin up later tonight). It's certainly better than before, but there's something really bothering me about it, and I'm not sure what. Thoughts on whether I should remove the jin completely or not?



If this were a tree I invested more time and money into, I'd have kept more foliage to help the new trunk line fill in more. If it survives to next season and I keep the jin, I'll try adding in some shari work to get something like:



I'm not sure whether or not I want to try bending the trunk per my original idea. It would certainly be a good exercise in making pads.

 

[M. Frary]

Kicked it's ass!

 

[amcoffeegirl]

What happened to take it slow???
That was NOT slow.

 

[MaverickLancer]

What happened to take it slow???
That was NOT slow.

I decided to take a chance and just go for it. This material cost me nothing and it allowed me to go through what would normally be a year's worth of styling in one evening. I feel like having that experience will only help when I do start buying better material, as I have a bit better insight.

And in all honesty, it was somewhat of an eyesore every time i went out in the garden.

Like I said above, if this was material I had more time / money / emotion invested, I woukd definitely have taken it slow.

 

[Smoke]

Snake eyes....