my very first attempt, please help!

Need2Tinker

Seedling
Messages
24
Reaction score
1
Location
oregon
First picture shows example of what I started with, second picture is where it is now. Go easy on me, this is literally my first attempt at anything bonsai! My elm and juniper are going to sit until spring but I thought this would be a nice learning experience! Did I destroy this tree already? Should I change something? Wire differently? I'm going for a forest look with a hand full of these trees I bought 6 of them. Any input is much appreciated. Thank you in advance.
 

Attachments

  • 20150108_151428.jpg
    20150108_151428.jpg
    201.3 KB · Views: 207
  • 20150108_151355.jpg
    20150108_151355.jpg
    195.2 KB · Views: 216

KennedyMarx

Omono
Messages
1,708
Reaction score
427
Location
Indiana (Zone 6a)
USDA Zone
6a
You need a back branch. Bend the top section down and back then bend the other branch up to make a new apex. My crude illustration might help:

image.jpg
 

Need2Tinker

Seedling
Messages
24
Reaction score
1
Location
oregon
You need a back branch. Bend the top section down and back then bend the other branch up to make a new apex. My crude illustration might help:

View attachment 65287


OK got it! So the effect that I want is a sort of stacked set of branches that circle? Do I want front branches, left, right, and rear? I thought it was more along the lines of just left and right branches?
 

Need2Tinker

Seedling
Messages
24
Reaction score
1
Location
oregon
So far this is what I've come up with after the advice. I've added a back branch, bent the tips up, and created a new apex.
 

Attachments

  • 20150108_184423.jpg
    20150108_184423.jpg
    183.8 KB · Views: 147
  • 20150108_184415.jpg
    20150108_184415.jpg
    190.9 KB · Views: 133
  • 20150108_184409.jpg
    20150108_184409.jpg
    188.9 KB · Views: 146
Last edited:

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
32,912
Reaction score
45,593
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
Libra Bonsai Design by a Lefty!

Hey Tinks,

This is an Alberta spruce?

I read this article http://www.bonsai4me.com/SpeciesGuide/Picea.html like 3 years ago, and have avoided these since due to it. However. My second annual x-mas tree hunt lacked any boxwood so I gave these a try. The whole time working on it, I was thinking about the article.

A semi-organized rant on my approach..

I selected this one, http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?17503-Charlie-Brizown! , out of a hundred, literally. Black fingers and odd looks from depot staff! One lady told me she thought." Ok,this guy likes roots!" Not many Make a good individual specimen, but since you already acquired yours and for a forest,....next.

You want to remove as little as possible. Use a much as you can. But you have to "clean them up" some to see in. I approach this from the top and bottom and meet in the middle.
You want your thickest branches on bottom, progressively thinning on up. So from the bottom whorl, you can remove all but the thickest couple branches, and all the new stringy growth from trunk.

At the top, find a good new leader. One that grows almost directly up, with good taper Transition, and the weaker the better IMO as you want to keep the apical dominance In check. Cut off everything above the new leader.

Now you know your extremes, thickest and thinnest. If there is something way thicker than your bottom branch in the middle, chances are you can cut it without hesitation. If there are some just a little thicker, but in the right place, with growth close to the trunk, you may need them, they can be balanced over the years. Anything smaller than the branches in apex and just below, cut those off too. More stringy crap. A lot of this tries to grow tweenst the whorls, energy sappers, cut em.

Anything in the middle whorls growing too straight up to bend down for use can be cut...but take a look first. One of these newly visible" new leaders" could give you better taper for an apex, a more compact tree.

Now you can see in there some. This is when your Left, right, BACK, branch layout comes into play. Finding a front becomes essential. A combo of wide base, features, better explained here. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba5owK4tJVA

At this point you should still have at least 2-5 branches at each whorl.
So selecting final branches then goes from the bottom up. Some consider your first branch the most important. It should go left or right, but NOT forward. You can take advantage of the whorls Now. This is a balance of diminishing distance apart on up, diminishing thickness on up, movement, growth close to trunk, maneuverability, strength(new bud count). Negating reverse taper.

Low Example, you have left your 2 thickest branches on the bottom. One left,one right, giving you a tbar which you DONT WANT. So one has to go but which? That have all the same characteristics except one has twice as many new buds, Keep that one. You want the most energy down low.

Middle example, again 2 branches with the same characteristics, can't decide, but one is next to a wound you need to heal. Keep it, sap flow will help.

Top. Up there, with strong apical growth, you're looking to keep weaker growth. You can treat what you kept for a new leader in the same manner as the rest of the tree, but you will likely find the branches, Being secondary on your material, to be more delicate, numerous, and eventually quite vigorous as the new apex. Its really an exercise of negating reverse taper, and bud removal. Length and thickness will be managed in the growing season.

For a forest though. .. http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATpiceagroupstyling.htm . http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATGroups.html

You will first select your layout, your focal tree...then utilize your whorls again. Your outside trees can have a good 1/3 from 7 o'clock to 12 o'clock completely removed. The remaining 2/3 should be balanced the same. Which 1/3 to remove?

I googled spruce bonsai images and there are a lot if excellent forests. I haven't really attempted one yet, but from what I gather, it is not the easiest to pull off, but if done right, can create quite the feelings!
I look forward to giving it a go this spring.

I also look forward to seeing the rest of your bunch.

Here is some pics of the bigger tree I got. No wire on this one. And the lowest branch is rooted so I will repot it alone. The other low one will go too. Wouldn't have selected this tree, the wife picked this out for our actual Xmas tree. Gave it a go. If it lives I will see what it does!

Of pics. Some of the distances apart are only 1/4". Tbar. Decision to make. Gotta carve the apex tradition. No taper at all!

God Morning ,

Sorce

Ps if it is a spruce, I don't find any with the tips up as a pine or juniper. If not, disregard everything! Lol
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20150109_055032.jpg
    IMG_20150109_055032.jpg
    137.3 KB · Views: 131
  • IMG_20150109_055048.jpg
    IMG_20150109_055048.jpg
    173.3 KB · Views: 120
  • IMG_20150109_055143.jpg
    IMG_20150109_055143.jpg
    170.6 KB · Views: 121
  • IMG_20150109_055205.jpg
    IMG_20150109_055205.jpg
    160.4 KB · Views: 117

Need2Tinker

Seedling
Messages
24
Reaction score
1
Location
oregon
That's an awesome bit of information sorce! Thanks for everything. I'm fairly sure it's an Alberta it was bunched in with the others but had no tag. The others are more bushy than tall so I think I'm going to head back to the nursery today and try and find some better trees for the attempt at the forest. After reading your advice I'm positive I took too much off this tree, but I will make plenty of mistakes for a few years I'm sure haha. Gotta learn somehow! I'll post pics of the new trees once I get them all picked out. With the pot I chose I'm going with 7 trees total. I've read an odd amount suits the final display better.
 

Need2Tinker

Seedling
Messages
24
Reaction score
1
Location
oregon
Had to make a trip to home depot and snagged these two up. For 7 bucks each I figured they are cheap enough to learn on and they are about triple the height of the other albertas I had, which I paid 12 bucks each for. Here goes nothing!
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
32,912
Reaction score
45,593
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
Pics?

I'm pretty sure I took too much off too!

Sorce
 
Messages
150
Reaction score
48
Location
NW England
Hello there

So I have kept a few bonsai for the last few years and decided this year to add to the collection! I have just purchased an alberta spruce, looking much like yours above about 6/8 inches tall never been worked on, generally I buy when the tree has been started off and had some ramification added but I wanted to do from scratch as I learn more. I also bought an english yew and an itiogawa juniper. (im in uk) all three are very small raw material starter trees.

So I guess my question is, should I pop the alberta into a large pot, view a view to thicken then cut down, or just allow to grow and style as it does so? This is my first pine, and I read all over how hard they are to work with, but they are so lovely I really had to buy one and give it a go! Any advise would be great :) as I am still quite new to bonsai really to be fair and most of what I have done on existing trees are wiring, pruning, but never pines before, I have a ligustrum, chinese elm and a deshojo (my favorite!) any tips? :)
Kim.
 

M. Frary

Bonsai Godzilla
Messages
14,307
Reaction score
22,120
Location
Mio Michigan
USDA Zone
4
I have one. It is the one tree I get die back on during winter. Odd.
It refuses to take a bend. If you don't wire all the way to the tips of branches they turn up on their own. Look like crooked goal posts.
Also they don't seem to back bud on old wood so well.
I'm giving up on mine. If it pulls through the winter I'm salvaging the wire and setting it free. I'm planting it where it will be sheltered out in the woods. That way if it lives someone may come across it and wonder how that ever grew there. Maybe they will think it will be a good bonsai candidate.
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
32,912
Reaction score
45,593
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
The bigger one I pruned after Xmas is yellowing.

The one I pruned more and wired is doing better.

Odd!

Unless the wire is acting like a tourniquet holding in sap and green.

Mine may find the dumpster too.

And they stink.

Sorce
 

JudyB

Queen of the Nuts
Messages
13,783
Reaction score
23,330
Location
South East of Cols. OH
USDA Zone
6a
It's a great candidate to learn wiring, as you'll be constantly re-wiring it, as it won't hold the bend very well. I had some, and of course the 3 tree example of the Bonsai4me was my model too. Cheap and a good learning tree.
 
Messages
150
Reaction score
48
Location
NW England
Sounds like I will have my work cut out then ! I may fail, but I must try as they are lovely little trees, though I am excited about the itiogawa juniper, its only two years from a cutting, but already I am gettig the bendy trunk, even if is a very slim trunk haha! But I have seen some amzing juniper bonsai.
 
Top Bottom