mycorrhizae
- Thread starter Cjlopez4
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sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Cjlopez4
Yamadori
GrimLore
Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
I am not being a smart ass but I must ask why? My reason is if a plant is doing fine why worry it? I am guessing here that prior to the basket it was in a nursery type pot and it had more which would be normal but not essential...
Grimmy
Grimmy
Cjlopez4
Yamadori
It was in a much smaller root Maker basket. It’s very healthy, however Mychorrizae is essential for JBP long term health.
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Grimmy and I might disagree on the benefits of adding mycorrhizae during potting, but I'll agree with him about your tree.
The product you clipped to this thread shows 4 species of endomycorrhizae:
1) It is possible that none of those 4 specific types will be any benefit to your JBP.
2) It is possible that a JBP does not use endomycorrhizae at all. (Possibly only ectomycorrhizae)
3) You already have it potted up, and to my "highly untrained eye" regarding anything Pine, I'd say it looks healthy.
4) If you were going to add anything, I'd add this "watered in" Root Rescue product that I was speaking about in another thread.
http://www.rootrescue.com/site/retail-pack
The Root Rescue has 18 (I think) different mycorrhizae... some echo, some endo... whatever particular type of mycorrhizae your plant requires will thrive and the others will die off. It is a broad range applicant that is a one and done type product. Although it isn't cheap, it isn't $27.00. If memory serves me correctly, the 22.5 g pouch is mixed with 10 gallons of water and was about $15.00 CDN. (Bear in mind that my memory isn't that great and I'm too lazy to double check the specifics.) If I'm right and one pouch makes 10 gallons, you can decide how many "potted trees" you could effectively treat with one pouch. I'm going to assume if you have a plant that uses ectomycorrhizae, you'd never have to re-apply it again... but also in this case, if you have a well established jamadori, you probably would never have to do it at all... the younger the plant you have the more benefit you might see... once ectomycorrhizae are established you'd just be wasting money and effort.
The part Grimmy and I might disagree on is repotting a tree that requires endomycorrhizae. I'd do the application afterwards just to re-establish the colony throughout the box, pot, planting, as quickly as possible. Grimmy "might say" that the mycorrhizae are already on the roots and will repopulate the box, pot, or planting in sufficient time, so as to not notice a difference.
IMHO, it all comes down to dollars and piece of mind... do I buy insurance, or don't I... but first you'd have to determine if you're buying the right insurance in the first place.
The product you clipped to this thread shows 4 species of endomycorrhizae:
1) It is possible that none of those 4 specific types will be any benefit to your JBP.
2) It is possible that a JBP does not use endomycorrhizae at all. (Possibly only ectomycorrhizae)
3) You already have it potted up, and to my "highly untrained eye" regarding anything Pine, I'd say it looks healthy.
4) If you were going to add anything, I'd add this "watered in" Root Rescue product that I was speaking about in another thread.
http://www.rootrescue.com/site/retail-pack
The Root Rescue has 18 (I think) different mycorrhizae... some echo, some endo... whatever particular type of mycorrhizae your plant requires will thrive and the others will die off. It is a broad range applicant that is a one and done type product. Although it isn't cheap, it isn't $27.00. If memory serves me correctly, the 22.5 g pouch is mixed with 10 gallons of water and was about $15.00 CDN. (Bear in mind that my memory isn't that great and I'm too lazy to double check the specifics.) If I'm right and one pouch makes 10 gallons, you can decide how many "potted trees" you could effectively treat with one pouch. I'm going to assume if you have a plant that uses ectomycorrhizae, you'd never have to re-apply it again... but also in this case, if you have a well established jamadori, you probably would never have to do it at all... the younger the plant you have the more benefit you might see... once ectomycorrhizae are established you'd just be wasting money and effort.
The part Grimmy and I might disagree on is repotting a tree that requires endomycorrhizae. I'd do the application afterwards just to re-establish the colony throughout the box, pot, planting, as quickly as possible. Grimmy "might say" that the mycorrhizae are already on the roots and will repopulate the box, pot, or planting in sufficient time, so as to not notice a difference.
IMHO, it all comes down to dollars and piece of mind... do I buy insurance, or don't I... but first you'd have to determine if you're buying the right insurance in the first place.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I agree, just because you don't see the stuff doesn't mean it's not there. Connifers produce Mycorrhiza naturally, it does not need to be present visually.
GrimLore
Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
Your response was far more detailed and spot on... I don't disagree at all, just do things differently, taking down my old arsenal of products to just 6 or so for good results. I must admit though in other climates and conditions some treatments are assuring...
Grimmy
River's Edge
Masterpiece
The picture you posted on another site showed a smaller pond basket i believe. Root Maker is a brand name usually reserved for a specific product. The picture also showed evidence of hard water deposits and algae indicating concern with watering practices. This alone could affect the degree of Mycorrhizae present and or observable. The responses you are receiving are intended to convey the fact that the michorrizae is already present and the product you are suggesting is not required. The repotting should result in improved vigor.
I am repeating myself but it is important to ensure the tree is properly secured if not already done.
I am repeating myself but it is important to ensure the tree is properly secured if not already done.
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
jriddell88
Omono
Hmmm... can you enlighten me ? THEY produce it naturally ?
Clicio
Masterpiece
Yes. It's a natural fact, they help each other.
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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I agree with Grimy. The presence or absence of visible myc has no bearing on the overall health of the tree. Everything from substrate, water quality to ferts will impact it's growth. My pines have never had the thick white fluff in the root ball when they've been re-potted, but they've always been generally healthy and vigorous, so I've not been too concerned about it.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Mycorrhiza has a symbiotic relationship with all conifers. Each conifer has it's own variety of Mycorrhiza that may or may not work with another different variety of conifer. It is produced by the tree itself just like certain bacteria are formed in a humans gut. That's why babies have colic and other dietary problems with the inability to digest certain things at a young age. This bacteria has not formed yet. The world is full of symbiotic relationships that all form without human intervention.
How does a tree do this? No one knows that I am aware of but it is true none the less. You do not need to inoculate a tree, it wont hurt the tree if you do but it is questionable that it will really help. It is one of those things we think we have to worry about but as I mentioned earlier you can have a tree that is doing quite well and have a soil mass completely colonized by Mycorrhiza that you will not be able to see without a microscope.
How does a tree do this? No one knows that I am aware of but it is true none the less. You do not need to inoculate a tree, it wont hurt the tree if you do but it is questionable that it will really help. It is one of those things we think we have to worry about but as I mentioned earlier you can have a tree that is doing quite well and have a soil mass completely colonized by Mycorrhiza that you will not be able to see without a microscope.
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"Connifers produce Mycorrhiza naturally, it does not need to be present visually."
No plant "produces" mycorrhizae, they have to be inoculated with it, naturally or otherwise.
No plant "produces" mycorrhizae, they have to be inoculated with it, naturally or otherwise.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Sorry that's not true. I have grown stuff from seed and seen it develop it's own colonies of Mycorrhiza in as little as a year. If it makes it way into the system of the tree it is through the natural process. Inoculation is a man applied process, so it would seem we may be arguing about semantics. But the fact remains; each species of tree has its own species of Mycorrhizae. On reading your above post a second time; you said ; Connifers produce Mycorrhiza naturally, it does not need to be present visually." and then you followed that with;---No plant "produces" mycorrhizae, they have to be inoculated with it, naturally or otherwise. Oh I got it now,--- you were quoting my previous remark. Going back to the human parallel, it is my understanding that the bacteria in the human digestive system cannot be added, it occurs naturally. It is probably true that the organism exists outside the human body but it does not show itself outside the human boady that's why it the extended use of anti-biotuics can be injurious to your health forcing the medical profession into aggressive measures to restore this balance.
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M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
There's no need to add mycorrhizae. No need to even worry about it.
It shows up on its own.
It lives in inorganic soils too and can take massive amounts of inorganic fertilizer too.
I don't add it. It's coming out the holes of every colander with a pine in it.
It shows up on its own.
It lives in inorganic soils too and can take massive amounts of inorganic fertilizer too.
I don't add it. It's coming out the holes of every colander with a pine in it.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
That too is my observation. When we look at the rotation of the Moon around the Earth we can look at the process and understand that it pretty much does this by itself. However if we are corned and apply the physics of the issue we find that there are a few things involved such as gravity, escape velocity, inertia and God knows what else we have our answer. However there is not a single thing we can do about any of these things so they might as well happen by themselves.
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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Fungal spores are everywhere; in the soil, in the water, in the rain, floating in the air. Plants are "inoculated" with it simply by growing into the soil that already has it, or by sitting out on a bench and being exposed to the wind and rain.
River's Edge
Masterpiece
This discussion reminds me of " Thrive Alive" that captivated a generation of Bonsai Growers with it's benefits to the delight of retailers and manufacturers alike. Scientific research eventually proved beyond a shadow of doubt that it was unnecessary and that it demonstrated no measureable difference to the trees. The micronutrients were present in the soil and natural fertilizers already. But not before it sat on the shelves and commanded high prices for decades. If my aging memory retains any accuracy it sold for $135.00 per gallon. CAD And it had a legion of believers who will argue its value still today. Have not seen it on a shelf for a long time though.
