Mystery hybrid elm quiz

[Mikecheck123]

Can anyone venture a guess as to what kind of elm I have? My best guess is a Siberian/American hybrid. However, some people and some literature suggest that such a cross is unlikely if not impossible. I see that crosses with slippery elm are common, but this doesn't look much like a slippery elm to me.

Facts:
Grown from a seed collected in NE Kansas in June 2019.
Leaf size: 3.5-4.5" long. Most guidebooks say that Siberian elms never get over 2.5-3", and this tree is still quite small.
Perfectly symmetrical leaf base.
Rough upper surface, smooth underside.



Full tree this week (about 4 feet tall now).



Comparison with an actual American elm leaf (not fully grown). Boy, doesn't it look similar? Note the difference in leaf base symmetry.

 

[AlainK]

It may be a Zelkova. About the leaves, most of mine (same batch) mine have non-symetrical bases, like these ones :



On this one, the leaves are very big because they're new growth from the stump of a big one in the garden that I had to cut down.

When potted, the leaves are much smaller and the base looks symetrical :

 

[sorce]

Do you remember what the buds looked like as they were pushing?

I been noting the severe difference between the rounded ball of Siberian and the pointier spearhead of American.

Both those leaves look skinny to me, I guess they're new though right?

Sorce

 

[BrianBay9]

Pretty sure that elm doesn't care what you call it. Enjoy!

 

[Mikecheck123]

Do you remember what the buds looked like as they were pushing?

I been noting the severe difference between the rounded ball of Siberian and the pointier spearhead of American.

Both those leaves look skinny to me, I guess they're new though right?

Sorce

Oh good idea on the buds. I've attached some pics. They emerge almost like a Chinese elm now that you mention it. The leaf tip emerges straight out of the trunk.

Regarding skinniness, yes, they're skinny. The first pic above is actually from last fall, so they stay skinny all year.

 

[Mikecheck123]

It may be a Zelkova. About the leaves, most of mine (same batch) mine have non-symetrical bases, like these ones :

View attachment 299713

On this one, the leaves are very big because they're new growth from the stump of a big one in the garden that I had to cut down.

When potted, the leaves are much smaller and the base looks symetrical :

View attachment 299715

Zelkova didn't occur to me, but it does have some of those traits, the skinniness, pointiness, and roughness.

But it's also double serrated and the new buds aren't cones. It also has a more rugged appearance than the zelkova I have and the ones in your pics.

But there is a big zelkova about a block away from me. Maybe my origin story isn't as exciting as I thought! I'll check out those leaves today and post a comparison if interesting.

 

[Mikecheck123]

Mystery elm (middle) between my zelkova and the neighborhood zelkova. Doesn't look very similar.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Mystery elm (middle) between my zelkova and the neighborhood zelkova. Doesn't look very similar.

You're working this up to a MYSTERY ON ELM STREET aren't you?

 

[Mikecheck123]

You're working this up to a MYSTERY ON ELM STREET aren't you?

It's been a nightmare!

 

[PiñonJ]

Here’s my Siberian, awaiting trunk chop:

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

To solve the mystery, you need a botanical key, the dichotomous key where you read each question, and the yes or no answer jumps you to the next question, for example hairs on leaf petiole, yes go to 3 no go to 15. At some point, when a unique set of traits have been ticked off, you will have the name of your tree.

I still think Siberian elm or Siberian x Slippery elm.

Outside chance it is Rock elm, Ulmus thomasii.

 

[Mikecheck123]

To solve the mystery, you need a botanical key, the dichotomous key where you read each question, and the yes or no answer jumps you to the next question, for example hairs on leaf petiole, yes go to 3 no go to 15. At some point, when a unique set of traits have been ticked off, you will have the name of your tree.

I still think Siberian elm or Siberian x Slippery elm.

Outside chance it is Rock elm, Ulmus thomasii.

Thanks, Leo. I was doing more research tonight, and apparently historical and modern claims of hybrids with American elms are met with great skepticism because American elms have a different number of chromosomes (28) than other elms (14).

But slippery elm and siberian elms readily hybridize, so I will presume that it's that.

 

[Igor. T. Ljubek]

Do your leaves have a hairy or smooth surface? Also take a closer look to the bark. Leaves are not always the best and only indicator of species.

 

[M. Frary]

It's a good thing I can come around and resolve these quandaries.
That my friends is a foemina elm.
Treat it like any other elm and it will be fine.
That means abuse it.

 

[Woocash]

It's a good thing I can come around and resolve these quandaries.
That my friends is a foemina elm.
Treat it like any other elm and it will be fine.
That means abuse it.

What does foemina mean? I’ve seen it a few times and cant find a definition.

 

[M. Frary]

What does foemina mean? I’ve seen it a few times and cant find a definition.

It's an old joke here.
In essence foemina is the name given to all mystery trees.
And if you Google it you get pictures of naked ladies.
Plus it's a kind of juniper.

 

[Woocash]

Ah ha! I see, though it appears all the naked ladies have given way to links to bad jokes on BNut...

 

[Lazylightningny]

Foemina is an inside BNut joke that you are now privy to. You're one of us now!

 

[Woocash]

Foemina is an inside BNut joke that you are now privy to. You're one of us now!

So that’s a good thing....yes?

 

[Lazylightningny]

So that’s a good thing....yes?

Depends on who you're talking to, but, yes!