Napa Oil Dry part no. 8822

justBonsai

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I keep hearing this claim that fertilizer kills microbes. Anybody have any research showing this and, more inportantly, the mechanism through wich it kills it? I just can't get my head around how that would happen!
High phosphorous content can kill mycorrhizal fungi. This is especially notable when using soluble chemical ferts. But if you are using chemical ferts you are artificially supplementing all the nutrients so fungi presence isn't as important.
 

M. Frary

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So, I was able to ask Ryan tonight on his Q&A why he picked the AXIS brand as the DE product he's testing. He basically had 2 reasons. First, the company that makes the AXIS product actually contacted Ryan to work with them on developing a product that can be used for bonsai. Second, it's a horticultural grade DE product. According to Ryan a horticultural grade is different from the DE product used in oil absorbents, kitty litter, etc.
Hahahahahahaha! $$$$$$$$$
 

Captnignit

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So, I was able to ask Ryan tonight on his Q&A why he picked the AXIS brand as the DE product he's testing. He basically had 2 reasons. First, the company that makes the AXIS product actually contacted Ryan to work with them on developing a product that can be used for bonsai. Second, it's a horticultural grade DE product. According to Ryan a horticultural grade is different from the DE product used in oil absorbents, kitty litter, etc.

I got the impression it was more about particle size options with AXIS. He mentioned a potential for slightly different characteristics between absorbent vs horticultural types but that was just him theorizing.
 

Captnignit

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Says it all right there.
How could there be a difference?

Well, they are meant for two different purposes, I could see how the processing of them could be handled differently. Whether or not that is the case is only known to EP Minerals.
 

sorce

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2 different purposes

3 or more...yes?

Lol! I wonder if Walter uses "horticultural grade shit they use on tennis courts!"

I find Food Grade and the other...
I think Food Grade is hort grade...
"Fired for less free silica" or some shit.

$

Lol!

@milehigh_7 where's that Tree of Life tagged Bag!?

Sorce
 

milehigh_7

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Well, they are meant for two different purposes, I could see how the processing of them could be handled differently. Whether or not that is the case is only known to EP Minerals.

They are "marketed" for different purposes. The only differences are in calcined vs. uncalcined and size available.
 

GrimLore

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They are "marketed" for different purposes. The only differences are in calcined vs. uncalcined and size available.

I found this http://www.absorbentproductsltd.com/diatomaceous-earth-calcined-vs-non-calcined.html

And quoted it for a better explanation, myself more silica is better suited for potted plants...

"Diatomaceous earth can be calcined or non-calcined. The difference between the two is very important depending on what purpose the DE is being used for.

Calcined diatomaceous earth has been treated at a temperature above 1000 ºC. The purpose of this is to further harden the exoskeletons of the diatoms in order to create a better filtering agent. This process causes the amorphous silica that makes up the exoskeleton of the diatom to turn in to crystalline silica. This is a benefit if the diatomaceous earth is to be used as a filtering aid (for example, in a pool filter), however crystalline silica can be toxic to humans and animals when inhaled. Calcined diatomaceous earth is not used for animal feed and is not food grade.

Natural diatomaceous earth is non-calcined meaning that it has not been treated at a high temperature. The amorphous silica remains in its natural state and is not considered harmful to animal or human health. Diatomaceous earth products, such as Red Lake Diatomaceous Earth, are required to contain less than 1% Crystalline Silica. Calcined DE products however, may contain up to 70% Crystalline Silica!"

Grimmy
 

sparklemotion

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I found this http://www.absorbentproductsltd.com/diatomaceous-earth-calcined-vs-non-calcined.html

And quoted it for a better explanation, myself more silica is better suited for potted plants...

"Diatomaceous earth can be calcined or non-calcined. The difference between the two is very important depending on what purpose the DE is being used for.

Calcined diatomaceous earth has been treated at a temperature above 1000 ºC. The purpose of this is to further harden the exoskeletons of the diatoms in order to create a better filtering agent. This process causes the amorphous silica that makes up the exoskeleton of the diatom to turn in to crystalline silica. This is a benefit if the diatomaceous earth is to be used as a filtering aid (for example, in a pool filter), however crystalline silica can be toxic to humans and animals when inhaled. Calcined diatomaceous earth is not used for animal feed and is not food grade.

Natural diatomaceous earth is non-calcined meaning that it has not been treated at a high temperature. The amorphous silica remains in its natural state and is not considered harmful to animal or human health. Diatomaceous earth products, such as Red Lake Diatomaceous Earth, are required to contain less than 1% Crystalline Silica. Calcined DE products however, may contain up to 70% Crystalline Silica!"

Grimmy


All DE is silica (basically 100%). The question is how much is amorphous and how much is crystalline.

Crystalline silica is bad for lungs. I have no idea whether it's good (or bad) for plants.

@milehigh_7: have you heard from your contacts about whether each of the following are actually calcined or not? Napa #8822, Optisorb, AxisDE, the coarse DE that you may be selling, American Bonsai NutraAgg*?

*I'm assuming that this is DE, though their web page won't admit it. It looks a heck of a lot like Optisorb to me, and if it's DE and American, I assume it's a rebranded EP product.
 

Captnignit

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They are "marketed" for different purposes. The only differences are in calcined vs. uncalcined and size available.

Isn't that the same thing? It's marked because it's intended for different uses. I'm not saying there is a difference only that it's possible there could be differences.
 

GrimLore

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Crystalline silica is bad for lungs. I have no idea whether it's good (or bad) for plants.

ANY powder inhaled from most any substrate is not good, the powder needs to be rinsed off while wearing protection. As an option it can be wet down before use and allowed to drain trough and out of the pot at watering... Most anything inhaled will cause damage.

My reasoning for Silica based is the same as Silica Sand - it is rough and drain great dragging air across roots at watering...

Grimmy
 

Anthony

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The 5 mm silica gravel we use is washed.
Fits the Ball Bearing principle nicely.
No powder and can be mixed damp.

I am not playing with silica powder --------- shine a torchlight on disturbed
dry fine sand see what is flying around.
Good Day
Anthony
 

Timbo

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Yea, I use Optisorb and it's been fine. I'm just saying that his reasoning isn't necessarily flawed.
I've used both, i'd much rather use Optisorb if it wasn't almost twice the price. You get less waste/dust, a little bigger particles and it seems lighter to me.
Whether the difference is just the size i dunno, but i do think it's different.
 
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