Natal Plum plums

rockm

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@Carol 83 - that is a nice Natal Plum. Good vigor.

I have a friend (Irene) who uses old bird cages, sets them over trees she wants to protect from Squirrels & other vermin too large to pass through the bars. You might try that. You can take the bottom off for trees on the ground, you can set pot in cage with bottom of cage on for trees on shelves. Garage and yard sales should yield a trove of cages for not much money. An odd, sometimes attractive, sometimes trashy looking yard ornament.

Without evidence from real world experience, I believe @rockm is right, they need heat and sun to bloom and set fruit. Second. I suspect they are self fertile, but like some other fruit, blueberries for example, they will bear much more heavily if they are cross pollinated by a cultivar that is not genetically identical. As would happen in South Africa. They are usually propagated by cuttings in North America, so it is possible there are only a small handful of different cultivars in cultivation. Only certain way to get different clones (cultivars) is to either buy named cultivars or raise them from seed. Seed is not available often.

I've bought from these people, seed is expensive, in that seed count per packet is usually pretty low, but there is seed you just don't find very often without having to order seed from overseas. Their tropical fruits selections are more extensive than the ''net blurb'' would lead you to believe.

They are self-fertile. They do not need a pollinator
 

rockm

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My oldest tree is a Natal plum. I got it in 1975 or 76. It is undergoing a two-year renovation right now. Phase 1, reducing length or branches and making the tree more compact, is done. Phase 2 is next year when I hope I can repot it into a better and smaller container.
Funny that the old natal plum my mom had was apparently imported in the 70's. It was in a big Chinese-made cream oval pot. Its pot is the one just above the grey oval in the foreground. Weren't many higher quality bonsai being imported back then.
pots.jpg
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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They are self-fertile. They do not need a pollinator

I'm going to geek out for a second. I'm not trying to argue with you per se. It is just that you used a ''short hand'' that I feel the urge to expand on. (I'm avoiding chores right now)

Self fertile only means the pollen of a flower can successfully form seed if it gets transferred to the stigma of the same flower or another flower on the tree.

Pollen self infertile - means the pollen from one cultivar will not form seed if placed on the stigma of the same cultivar. (cultivar = clone = genetically identical from same seed) This condition is common among fruit trees, especially cherries, certain plums, chestnuts, walnuts, and a very complex pattern for hickories.

In agriculture (not botanical) terms - the pollinator is the insect, spider, bat, bird or farm worker or undergraduate student that moves pollen from the anthers or pollinia to the stigmatic surface of the flower.

Pollenizer - is the term used for the donor cultivar that has compatible pollen for the cultivar being pollinated. For example Rainier sweet cherry is a good pollenizer for Bing sweet cherries.

Cleistogamy - is the condition where no pollinator is required. The flower, as it ages will twist and bring the anthers, which carry the pollen, in contact with the stigmatic surface. Many flowering plants that use this do not open their flowers at all. Others, like soy beans - roughly 25% of the flowers will be pollinated by visiting insects, and the remaining 75% will be pollinated by cleistogamy. The flower parts twist, and self pollinate.

A flower that is self fertile - can be self pollinated - may still require an insect to move the pollen from the anthers to the stigma.

Cleistogamy, the condition not requiring any intervention from a pollinator - is not very common.

When it comes to Natal Plum - I believe they are not capable of cleistogamy, simply because of the low number of people reporting fruit on their trees. Where cleistogamy is the mechanism, the normal condition is for every flower, or nearly every flower to produce a fruit.

In blueberries - a flower that does not get pollen on its stigmatic surface, fruit will form, but it will be small and seedless. A flower that gets pollen from itself or a neighboring plant of the SAME CLONE - self pollinated - will form fruit - the fruit will be medium size and only have a few seeds, the seeds are small, and viability is low. A blueberry blossom that gets pollinated by a bumble bee with pollen from a different clone of blueberry, will form the largest size berry possible for the cultivar, and there will be many seeds, larger than the self pollinated seeds, and with a higher viability if planted out.

So this is my geeking out,
I believe you need some sort of insect to visit your Natal Plums to get fruit. Few of us have totally bug free homes. Given the narrow tube the flower forms, it is probably not a honeybee that pollinates Natal Plum. I bet fungus gnats, or other such small flying things could get down the flower tube and to the deed, though that floral design does suggest the target pollinator is a sphinx moth or some other Lepidopteran.
 

rockm

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I'm going to geek out for a second. I'm not trying to argue with you per se. It is just that you used a ''short hand'' that I feel the urge to expand on. (I'm avoiding chores right now)

Self fertile only means the pollen of a flower can successfully form seed if it gets transferred to the stigma of the same flower or another flower on the tree.

Pollen self infertile - means the pollen from one cultivar will not form seed if placed on the stigma of the same cultivar. (cultivar = clone = genetically identical from same seed) This condition is common among fruit trees, especially cherries, certain plums, chestnuts, walnuts, and a very complex pattern for hickories.

In agriculture (not botanical) terms - the pollinator is the insect, spider, bat, bird or farm worker or undergraduate student that moves pollen from the anthers or pollinia to the stigmatic surface of the flower.

Pollenizer - is the term used for the donor cultivar that has compatible pollen for the cultivar being pollinated. For example Rainier sweet cherry is a good pollenizer for Bing sweet cherries.

Cleistogamy - is the condition where no pollinator is required. The flower, as it ages will twist and bring the anthers, which carry the pollen, in contact with the stigmatic surface. Many flowering plants that use this do not open their flowers at all. Others, like soy beans - roughly 25% of the flowers will be pollinated by visiting insects, and the remaining 75% will be pollinated by cleistogamy. The flower parts twist, and self pollinate.

A flower that is self fertile - can be self pollinated - may still require an insect to move the pollen from the anthers to the stigma.

Cleistogamy, the condition not requiring any intervention from a pollinator - is not very common.

When it comes to Natal Plum - I believe they are not capable of cleistogamy, simply because of the low number of people reporting fruit on their trees. Where cleistogamy is the mechanism, the normal condition is for every flower, or nearly every flower to produce a fruit.

In blueberries - a flower that does not get pollen on its stigmatic surface, fruit will form, but it will be small and seedless. A flower that gets pollen from itself or a neighboring plant of the SAME CLONE - self pollinated - will form fruit - the fruit will be medium size and only have a few seeds, the seeds are small, and viability is low. A blueberry blossom that gets pollinated by a bumble bee with pollen from a different clone of blueberry, will form the largest size berry possible for the cultivar, and there will be many seeds, larger than the self pollinated seeds, and with a higher viability if planted out.

So this is my geeking out,
I believe you need some sort of insect to visit your Natal Plums to get fruit. Few of us have totally bug free homes. Given the narrow tube the flower forms, it is probably not a honeybee that pollinates Natal Plum. I bet fungus gnats, or other such small flying things could get down the flower tube and to the deed, though that floral design does suggest the target pollinator is a sphinx moth or some other Lepidopteran.
Short answer, no you don't need another plant for fruit. ;-)
 
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... it is possible there are only a small handful of different cultivars in cultivation. Only certain way to get different clones (cultivars) is to either buy named cultivars or raise them from seed. Seed is not available often.
Well.. How hard would it be to mail you a big old handmade paper birthday card embedded with a bunch of seeds ? 😂 It would fit in an envelope and postage would probably be what... one... maybe two USD?
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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LOL,
Let's do that with a species worth getting in trouble over. You have seed of any of the Disa orchid species? Or something hallucinagenic? Just joking.

Trade Winds seed company, based in the USA has Natal Plum seed for sale this week. It is around, just not as easy to find as tomato seed.

www.tradewindsfruit.com
 

Bonsai Nut

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You see natal plums EVERYWHERE here in landscaping. It is actually on the list for our homeowner's association as one of the preferred "water wise" plants that we use in our landscaping. We see plums all the time... but I have never seen them as large as on your plant. Normally they are just small things - not much larger than a marble. It is probably due to the cultivars we use. It is cool to see a large plum; I didn't actually think there were any out there.
 

Mayank

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Hey, I was wondering. I didn't do a wider search so call me lazy....
but has anyone done a complete defoliation of a natal plum to get smaller leaves? any time of year that would be best? spring? I've got fairly large leaves on mine.
 

rockm

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Hey, I was wondering. I didn't do a wider search so call me lazy....
but has anyone done a complete defoliation of a natal plum to get smaller leaves? any time of year that would be best? spring? I've got fairly large leaves on mine.
You could defoliate, but you're going to have the same size leaves if you don't change some things. Defoliation is meant to increase branch ramification. Smaller leaves CAN be a side benefit, but it's not reliable.

I don't know this tree's situation, but if it's inside or in any shade. move it outside into Full sun. Hard pruning old growth makes this plant backbud extensively, which can produce smaller leaves when the plant is left in full sun. They are extremely tolerant of sun exposure, in my experience. I've seen one withstand full Texas summertime sunshine for decades...
 

Mayank

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You could defoliate, but you're going to have the same size leaves if you don't change some things. Defoliation is meant to increase branch ramification. Smaller leaves CAN be a side benefit, but it's not reliable.

I don't know this tree's situation, but if it's inside or in any shade. move it outside into Full sun. Hard pruning old growth makes this plant backbud extensively, which can produce smaller leaves when the plant is left in full sun. They are extremely tolerant of sun exposure, in my experience. I've seen one withstand full Texas summertime sunshine for decades...
Ours is always in full sun from May through October and as close to first frost asi can push it...
 

Mayank

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That looks suspiciously like a Vance Hanna NP...
It's a cutting from his almost 40-50 year old NP but there's no comparison to his. His tree is incredible. We've now had ours and been working on it for about ten years. Just bought the pot (identical to his NP pot) from him before he moved to Cali last year and repotted it two months ago. He's coming over tonight BTW 😁. I'll look for pics of his tree.
 

Carol 83

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Most of the plums ripened, untouched by critters. I plucked them off to give the plant a couple of months to grow before having to come inside. I tried one, meh.
 
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