Natal Plum

pitchpine

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I rooted a cutting from mine a couple summers ago and it was dead easy! Just stuck it in a glass of water and then potted in fine bonsai soil once it had grown a good number of roots. I don't remember for sure, but think it was probably around early to mid summer.

Laura

When I do trim up the Natal Plum, I was wondering if I might be able to get some of the cuttings to root? Some of the shoots are really long.
 

Carol 83

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Thanks everyone for all of the good advice. Leo, I am actually more in southern IL, about 30 miles east of ST. Louis, so a little warmer here. (boo Rams:() But still afraid to leave anything out during winter, that's why I'm trying to stick more to flowering, tropical's, even though I know they are frowned upon by a lot of people. Thanks for the suggestions. I have a Wal-Mart Fukien tea, I've had for a few years. It puts out lots of buds, but few actually bloom. They just dry up. I'm disappointed to hear the Natal doesn't bloom very often. It is growing crazy wild, and hoped it would flower soon. But I do have buds on the brush cherry, so looking forward to seeing the flowers. I actually have orchids also (only phals, because they are easy ;)) Going to try and root a cutting just for the heck of it, thanks Laura, and everyone else. BTW Grimmy, my elm is living outside now;).
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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I have a sister living in ''burbs'' of St. Louis, and visit several times a year. I know the climate. St. Louis winters are a zone 6 affair, even though -10 F is rare, you do get late freezes, and those really nasty ice storms. Satsuki azaleas would not be reliably hardy in your area, though many USA hybrids would be. Lots of trees, including Japanese Black pine are hardy in your area, so when you feel the urge do try your hand at outdoor bonsai. Make your first attempts with species known to be hardy into zone 5 or even zone 4, that way you won't have to worry about cold. Just put the trees on the ground in a spot protected from winter sun.

I love indoor gardening, and encourage you to keep working with your indoor trees. That Funkien Tea has not died on you is a good sign, you have the ''knack''. Charge forth, try others. Maybe a pomegranate if you have room in your sunniest window. I summer mine outdoors, and it comes indoors in autumn after a light frost or two. Good growing.
 

Carol 83

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love indoor gardening, and encourage you to keep working with your indoor trees. That Funkien Tea has not died on you is a good sign, you have the ''knack''. Charge forth, try others. Maybe a pomegranate if you have room in your sunniest window. I summer mine outdoors, and it comes indoors in autumn after a light frost or two. Good growing.[/QUOTE]
 

Carol 83

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Sorry for above, new at posting. Thanks for the advice Leo. I just used a gift card I had to buy a miniature Yaupon Holly from Eastern Leaf. Do you think that will work in my very sunny southern exposure window? Or will it need to go outside? Any advice is appreciated.
 

Carol 83

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Thanks, I have already discovered it does have some NASTY thorns!!!!
 

pitchpine

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My small mess of a fukien tea prebonsai (got it on clearance for about $1.75 at New England Bonsai Gardens about 5 years ago) puts out a ton of flowers year round but has never fruited. It's a very troublesome species---the spider mites and mealy bugs both love it, and I can never seem to get it to put on growth where I want it. I don't have the heart to let it die willingly, but often question my sanity for continuing to hope that some day I'll be able to develop it into something remotely resembling bonsai. :p

Laura


love indoor gardening, and encourage you to keep working with your indoor trees. That Funkien Tea has not died on you is a good sign, you have the ''knack''. Charge forth, try others. Maybe a pomegranate if you have room in your sunniest window. I summer mine outdoors, and it comes indoors in autumn after a light frost or two. Good growing.
[/QUOTE]
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Yaupon holly will not be reliably hardy in Saint Louis, I think it is a zone 7 or 8 plant. It needs sun to have "tight" growth, it will be leggy if it is too shady. I would summer it outdoors, and move it to the brightest windowsill you have for the winter. I did winter mine in a dark unheated well house, where it hovered between 32 and 40 F. for most of the winter. But just leaving it out in autumn until it has had several light frosts, then moved to a windowsill, where the cold glass will keep it somewhat cooler than room temps should be fine. I would bring it in before the temps drop below 29 F. In spring I would not put it out until all danger of frost has passed. I think if you try to keep it indoors year round, you might have trouble with thin weak growth if your light is not quite bright enough. But if you want you can try. It is native through most of Florida, even the frost free areas.
 

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My Fukien Tea, was a cheap Wal-mart buy, so I it wasn't much of an investment, Laura. I haven't had bug problems, but most of the buds dry up and fall off. I get the occasional actual flower, it IS frustrating! Thanks Leo, looks like I made a poor choice with the Yaupon Holly. Shows I have ALOT to learn, but I will follow your advice, and see how it goes. I think I need to quit buying tress for awhile:oops:
 

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I thought I would post a couple picks of the "wild thing". I am letting grow, as was advised. Just for the hell of it I stuck a couple cuttings in a glass of water with a twig from my weeping willow, and they are getting some roots! Natal Plum.jpg Natal Plum 2.jpg Natal Plum 3.jpg
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Nice natal plum, It is bigger than I thought, which is good. You have enough ''tree'' there, that it is worth the effort to tell you what I'd do. Letting it grow will help thicken the trunk.

Since you are new, it will be hard to visualize, but look at the tree, with the thought toward identifying the line of the main trunk and main branches. Don't start pruning now, just look and think about it. Your tree will probably be only 3 to 7 of the branches that are currently there. I would let the lowest branch keep growing long and straight away from the rest, with the thought of it being the ''sacrifice'' branch that is used to thicken the trunk. After it is 5 or more feet long, it will have caused the lower trunk to thicken. You want the trunk to approach 2 or possibly more inches in diameter an inch above the soil, so even though it will look silly for a few years, just let that branch grow. The branches you need for the design you keep pruned short, cause them to branch, develop ''movement'', wire them to shape if ''clip and grow'' isn't enough to get them in position. About half way up you should let a second ''sacrifice branch'' grow, but this one should only be allowed half the length of the first sacrifice, and this will thicken the middle section of the tree. You want taper in your trunk, from thick to thin at the top. Sacrifice branches are one way to do this.

Think about styles, maybe use and oak tree as a pattern, which is a central trunk with branches to the sides, until the upper third, and then the trunk divides to 2 branches, then those divide to 4 and so on to make a broad round crown.

Or and informal broom, like a maple, trunk divides to 2 sub trunks, then the 2 divide to 4, then the 4 divide to 8 and begin to arch outward, the 8 divide to 16, those to 32, etc.

Or do you have a style in mind? It is not a pine tree, it should not be a single trunk with a few branches ending in a pointed top.

At any rate - don't cut now, let it grow out and see if it will bloom. But think about the possibilities, and where you have branches, and where you would need to get new branches to make a style work. The style that needs the least number of new branches on the oldest part of the trunk is the one the tree will most likely cooperate with. Plan on actually styling it next summer, or even in a couple years from now. Thicken that trunk up some first.

Nice tree, keep it growing. Next year you can do some selective pruning. Near Edwardsville, IL is Cass Bonsai, take your tree there when they offer classes. Or join the St. Louis Bonsai Society. Attend a few meetings before joining and see if you like the group. There are a number of very skilled members in the St. Louis group. They have an active number of memebers, even hosted a Shohin Convention. Shohin are bonsai under 8 inches tall, a somewhat specialized sub-group of bonsai. You have some great local resources. You have a nice little nataal plum there.
 

rockm

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I took care of a big Natal Plum bonsai for years. Learned a thing or two from it:

Direct sun all summer, even in places like Texas (which is where the one I took care of lived). Likes water, but should be kept in a free draining mix.

Roots don't like to be messed with much.

Extreme hard pruning of older branches and trunks is the best way to induce backbudding and movement in branches. Wiring can work, but clip and grow produces the best results visually.

In other words, if you want denser, tighter growth, wait until the new shoots lignify (turn to wood and aren't green), then hack them back to one pair of leaves, you will get two new shoots. Do this repeatedly and you can build up quite a network of old-looking branching.

Also, these are self pollinating. Leave the plant outdoors when it flowers and you will get plums.

Indoor wintering is a must. Bright location, NOT in a window sill.
 

Carol 83

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Nice natal plum, It is bigger than I thought, which is good. You have enough ''tree'' there, that it is worth the effort to tell you what I'd do. Letting it grow will help thicken the trunk.

Since you are new, it will be hard to visualize, but look at the tree, with the thought toward identifying the line of the main trunk and main branches. Don't start pruning now, just look and think about it. Your tree will probably be only 3 to 7 of the branches that are currently there. I would let the lowest branch keep growing long and straight away from the rest, with the thought of it being the ''sacrifice'' branch that is used to thicken the trunk. After it is 5 or more feet long, it will have caused the lower trunk to thicken. You want the trunk to approach 2 or possibly more inches in diameter an inch above the soil, so even though it will look silly for a few years, just let that branch grow. The branches you need for the design you keep pruned short, cause them to branch, develop ''movement'', wire them to shape if ''clip and grow'' isn't enough to get them in position. About half way up you should let a second ''sacrifice branch'' grow, but this one should only be allowed half the length of the first sacrifice, and this will thicken the middle section of the tree. You want taper in your trunk, from thick to thin at the top. Sacrifice branches are one way to do this.

Think about styles, maybe use and oak tree as a pattern, which is a central trunk with branches to the sides, until the upper third, and then the trunk divides to 2 branches, then those divide to 4 and so on to make a broad round crown.

Or and informal broom, like a maple, trunk divides to 2 sub trunks, then the 2 divide to 4, then the 4 divide to 8 and begin to arch outward, the 8 divide to 16, those to 32, etc.

Or do you have a style in mind? It is not a pine tree, it should not be a single trunk with a few branches ending in a pointed top.

At any rate - don't cut now, let it grow out and see if it will bloom. But think about the possibilities, and where you have branches, and where you would need to get new branches to make a style work. The style that needs the least number of new branches on the oldest part of the trunk is the one the tree will most likely cooperate with. Plan on actually styling it next summer, or even in a couple years from now. Thicken that trunk up some first.

Nice tree, keep it growing. Next year you can do some selective pruning. Near Edwardsville, IL is Cass Bonsai, take your tree there when they offer classes. Or join the St. Louis Bonsai Society. Attend a few meetings before joining and see if you like the group. There are a number of very skilled members in the St. Louis group. They have an active number of memebers, even hosted a Shohin Convention. Shohin are bonsai under 8 inches tall, a somewhat specialized sub-group of bonsai. You have some great local resources. You have a nice little nataal plum there.
Wow, my head is spinning at how much I need to learn! I have printed off your reply, so I can study it. Your advice and suggestions help more than reading any bonsai book. I think everyone new here appreciates, the patience and and time you take to help us, I know I certainly do. I will let that puppy grow, and study it to try and get the vision you have painted. I live in a very small town, and am a little chicken driving to St. Louis, but will check out where that club meets. Cass is only 10-15 ,minutes from my house. I called there once, but they are only open by appointment, so I was a little intimidated by that. But have been told by others here they are nice guys. I will call again about classes. I think he might have said the St Louis club comes there sometimes to work on their trees? You have got me pretty excited about what that little tree could become. Glad you like it, I do too. Even wild and crazy looking :)
 

Carol 83

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I took care of a big Natal Plum bonsai for years. Learned a thing or two from it:

Direct sun all summer, even in places like Texas (which is where the one I took care of lived). Likes water, but should be kept in a free draining mix.

Roots don't like to be messed with much.

Extreme hard pruning of older branches and trunks is the best way to induce backbudding and movement in branches. Wiring can work, but clip and grow produces the best results visually.

In other words, if you want denser, tighter growth, wait until the new shoots lignify (turn to wood and aren't green), then hack them back to one pair of leaves, you will get two new shoots. Do this repeatedly and you can build up quite a network of old-looking branching.

Also, these are self pollinating. Leave the plant outdoors when it flowers and you will get plums.

Indoor wintering is a must. Bright location, NOT in a window sill.
Thank you. As you can see the crazy long shoots are very thin and green, so I imagine will take awhile to thicken up and lignify. But can't wait to try your advice. So, I guess you think it should go outside? I know I am going to get ALOT of crap about this, but it has never been outside. I've had it a year on a plant stand next to my south facing patio doors. I guess I'll put it out, if that's what everyone thinks is best for it.
 

rockm

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OUTSIDE, immediately and into as much sun as you can get it into. EDIT--If you can, get it to a place where it can get a few hours of morning sun initially, then some shade. Gradually move it to sunnier spot over the next couple of weeks until it is in full sun all day. The gradual approach will avoid sunburned leaves.

If it were mine, I just plunk it in a sunny spot where it gets at least four hours of direct sun and let it be. The leaves on the plant now are acclimated to low light and will probably be damaged initially. Even if they die off, turn color or whatever, they will probably be replaced.

It will only limp along inside. I think you will be surprised at the changes once it is out there.
 

Carol 83

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OUTSIDE, immediately and into as much sun as you can get it into. EDIT--If you can, get it to a place where it can get a few hours of morning sun initially, then some shade. Gradually move it to sunnier spot over the next couple of weeks until it is in full sun all day. The gradual approach will avoid sunburned leaves.

If it were mine, I just plunk it in a sunny spot where it gets at least four hours of direct sun and let it be. The leaves on the plant now are acclimated to low light and will probably be damaged initially. Even if they die off, turn color or whatever, they will probably be replaced.

It will only limp along inside. I think you will be surprised at the changes once it is out there.
Ok, will do. When I first got it, it had a lot of yellow leaves, and it dropped most all of it's leaves, due to the stress of shipping, I guess. I kept it where I could keep a close eye on it, until it recovered, and just left it there. Thanks
 

Carol 83

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So almost a year later. Pretty wild looking, have left it to grow, as was advised. It's been in the same pot/soil for almost 2 years. Should I repot once it warms up? I read they do not like their roots messed with too much. I have a larger plastic training pot I could repot in, if that would be beneficial. Should it be cleaned up a little, or just let it continue growing?NATAL PLUM 2017.jpg NATAL PLUM 2017A.jpg NATAL PLUM 2017B.jpg
 

sorce

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Did you steal one of my old "sock wrapped pots"? Lol!

I'd say leave what branches need to be bigger, if any, and cut back the apex some.

Your Hubby has probly seen Mile markers closer than them internodes!

Sorce
 
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