Natal Plum

Carol 83

Flower Girl
Messages
11,126
Reaction score
27,129
Location
IL
Did you steal one of my old "sock wrapped pots"? Lol!

I'd say leave what branches need to be bigger, if any, and cut back the apex some.

Your Hubby has probly seen Mile markers closer than them internodes!

Sorce
Lol, it's the cat perch. I was just going by last years advice to let it go wild, so that's what I did. What about the repotting, it's been in the same soil/pot for almost 2 years. I don't plan on messing with the roots, since what I read said they don't like that.
 

Bonsai Nut

Nuttier than your average Nut
Messages
12,420
Reaction score
27,869
Location
Charlotte area, North Carolina
USDA Zone
8a
I don't plan on messing with the roots, since what I read said they don't like that.

When repotting you have to treat them like azaleas. Until they are fully transitioned into good bonsai soil, and have had good root work done, they are going to have a fibrous pad of fine roots that you can't rake out, and the good roots are mixed in with a mat of dead ones. Think of the root pad like a pie, and every time you repot, you will want to rake out a pie slice equal to 1/6 of the pie, while leaving the rest of the roots alone. If you rake out ALL the roots at the same time the tree will usually not respond well and may even die. After 6 repots (6 years give or take) you will find all the old roots gone, and much stronger new roots growing in your good, loose, bonsai soil mix. At that time it will be much easier to repot and you may find you can almost shake out the old soil and replace it with new soil without raking or otherwise abrading/damaging the roots.

I am going to add... but you do have to do this eventually because otherwise your tree will have a "disk" of bad matted roots around its base and even if you slip pot it into a bigger pot those bad and dead roots won't go away. In the best case they will simply look bad, but in the worst case they will cause problems with watering, and may create necrotic dead zones in your root ball, root rot, and who knows what else. No bueno.
 
Last edited:

Leo in N E Illinois

The Professor
Messages
11,337
Reaction score
23,254
Location
on the IL-WI border, a mile from ''da Lake''
USDA Zone
5b
Hi Carol, it does look like it is time to repot. @Bonsai Nut told you right about technique to change out media. You will be able to tell what type of soil it is in when you take it out of the pot.

To prune? Or not to prune? Really depends on what you want? What do you want it to grow into? How thick a trunk do you want?
It might help to do a sketch, and make some notes about your plan.

If you want a trunk thicker than your thumb, you have some growing to do. A bigger training pot would be the way to go. Maybe a 6 inch or 9 inch diameter bulb pan. If you like the trunk the way it is, you can put it back into the same pot.

Just looking at it, you have 2 branches that are as thick as the trunk. And they are at 90 degree angles to the trunk.

If you want to keep it small, and keep it in the bonsai pot it is currently in, and pretty much want to keep it as is, I would prune all the branches to just one or two leaves each. Then let it grow out again.

If it were mine, I would repot to a 6 or 9 inch bulb pan. When I repot change the angle of the trunk to roughly a 45 degree angle, and put the second up from the roots thick branch on top, going up at roughly a 45 degree angle. The branch will become the extension of your trunk. The next segment of the trunk. cut off the first thick branch. Cut all the fine branches to just one or two leaves. Shorten the new "second segment" of the trunk to roughly 2/3 the length from the soil to the end of the first segment. You will be building a tree, one segment at a time. Then all summer let it grow out. Every year or two years you repeat the chop it back process. Each time adding another segment to the trunk.

But do answer the question as to what you want. I would shoot for an upright tree as in my proposal. But Natal plum do make good cascades if you like. Or any style in between. So think about what you want. make notes, and then you will be able to head there.
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
32,908
Reaction score
45,579
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
Thanks @Bonsai Nut, much I did not know. Any thoughts @Leo in N E Illinois? Time for a hair cut or let it go wild yet?

I don't know these at all....

So maybe someone could call BS....

But I really like, Damn, it could have been Leo I got this from!

I really like the idea of leaves being factories to make food.
The more the better.

Now...I don't know if the leggy growth is due to poor soil or light....

But there aren't many "factories" for the length of the branches.

If you don't cut it back...
You can have the same % of factories in this year's growth.

If you cut it back and repot it, you can possibly have way more factories by the end of this year, than you would if left unpotted and uncut.

Which could, in the long run, give you way more growth than just leaving it.

Backwards....
But it seems to need a better...
"Builder of factories".

Sorce
 

Carol 83

Flower Girl
Messages
11,126
Reaction score
27,129
Location
IL
Hi Carol, it does look like it is time to repot. @Bonsai Nut told you right about technique to change out media. You will be able to tell what type of soil it is in when you take it out of the pot.

To prune? Or not to prune? Really depends on what you want? What do you want it to grow into? How thick a trunk do you want?
It might help to do a sketch, and make some notes about your plan.

If you want a trunk thicker than your thumb, you have some growing to do. A bigger training pot would be the way to go. Maybe a 6 inch or 9 inch diameter bulb pan. If you like the trunk the way it is, you can put it back into the same pot.

Just looking at it, you have 2 branches that are as thick as the trunk. And they are at 90 degree angles to the trunk.

If you want to keep it small, and keep it in the bonsai pot it is currently in, and pretty much want to keep it as is, I would prune all the branches to just one or two leaves each. Then let it grow out again.

If it were mine, I would repot to a 6 or 9 inch bulb pan. When I repot change the angle of the trunk to roughly a 45 degree angle, and put the second up from the roots thick branch on top, going up at roughly a 45 degree angle. The branch will become the extension of your trunk. The next segment of the trunk. cut off the first thick branch. Cut all the fine branches to just one or two leaves. Shorten the new "second segment" of the trunk to roughly 2/3 the length from the soil to the end of the first segment. You will be building a tree, one segment at a time. Then all summer let it grow out. Every year or two years you repeat the chop it back process. Each time adding another segment to the trunk.

But do answer the question as to what you want. I would shoot for an upright tree as in my proposal. But Natal plum do make good cascades if you like. Or any style in between. So think about what you want. make notes, and then you will be able to head there.
Awesome advice, as usual. I want to take my time with this one, so a bigger training pot it is. I always read "one insult a year", so is it OK to repot, and make the pruning changes you suggest in the same season?
 

Carol 83

Flower Girl
Messages
11,126
Reaction score
27,129
Location
IL
I don't know these at all....

So maybe someone could call BS....

But I really like, Damn, it could have been Leo I got this from!

I really like the idea of leaves being factories to make food.
The more the better.

Now...I don't know if the leggy growth is due to poor soil or light....

But there aren't many "factories" for the length of the branches.

If you don't cut it back...
You can have the same % of factories in this year's growth.

If you cut it back and repot it, you can possibly have way more factories by the end of this year, than you would if left unpotted and uncut.

Which could, in the long run, give you way more growth than just leaving it.

Backwards....
But it seems to need a better...
"Builder of factories".

Sorce
I understand and agree. It has been growing, but very leggy. It has good light, a southern exposure, plus grow lights. But has been in the same questionable soil for almost 2 years. It definitely needs something. I've been pretty chicken-shit about doing much to it, but it's time. I'm even going to make the chop you suggested on my lavender star flower this spring. It also looks like a wild thing. I got to see it bloom, so going to go for it. I had another one, but sent it to a one time poster here with a disability, trying to start over.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

The Professor
Messages
11,337
Reaction score
23,254
Location
on the IL-WI border, a mile from ''da Lake''
USDA Zone
5b
Natal plums, are a broadleaf evergreen, from moderately arid tropical climate, and their growing season is pretty much anytime they have water. You can insult them more than once a year. AND doing two or more things on the same day ''kinda counts'' as one insult depending on what you do. The whole ''one insult per year'' is a saying that most often is used with trees that only have a single flush of growth a year. Natal plums pretty much grow most of the year, more or less continuously. They slow down or rest in really cool weather, but start growing again as soon as it is a little warmer. As long as they have sun and water they keep growing. ''One insult'' is a mantra also tossed out when someone seems to want to do something else every week to their trees.

What I would do, is do the repot first, and change the planting angle if you want to change the trunk from strictly vertical to an angle. When you take it out of the pot, if it is in a commercial azalea mix do as Greg suggested. If it already is in a bonsai mix, because it was bought as bonsai, you won't have to be as aggressive with the roots. First see what you actually have there.

So if you had to be aggressive with the roots, do a moderate prune, if you don't have to be aggressive with pruning the roots, You can be more aggressive with your pruning. Take care of the roots first, and decide from what you find how aggressive you can be with the pruning.
 

Carol 83

Flower Girl
Messages
11,126
Reaction score
27,129
Location
IL
Natal plums, are a broadleaf evergreen, from moderately arid tropical climate, and their growing season is pretty much anytime they have water. You can insult them more than once a year. AND doing two or more things on the same day ''kinda counts'' as one insult depending on what you do. The whole ''one insult per year'' is a saying that most often is used with trees that only have a single flush of growth a year. Natal plums pretty much grow most of the year, more or less continuously. They slow down or rest in really cool weather, but start growing again as soon as it is a little warmer. As long as they have sun and water they keep growing. ''One insult'' is a mantra also tossed out when someone seems to want to do something else every week to their trees.

What I would do, is do the repot first, and change the planting angle if you want to change the trunk from strictly vertical to an angle. When you take it out of the pot, if it is in a commercial azalea mix do as Greg suggested. If it already is in a bonsai mix, because it was bought as bonsai, you won't have to be as aggressive with the roots. First see what you actually have there.

So if you had to be aggressive with the roots, do a moderate prune, if you don't have to be aggressive with pruning the roots, You can be more aggressive with your pruning. Take care of the roots first, and decide from what you find how aggressive you can be with the pruning.
I actually printed your posts off, so I can read them when I take the plunge. I'm excited to have a plan, thanks again for excellent and detailed advice. My BRT will thank me for pruning it's neighbor, it's been trying to strangle it with it's crazy growth!
 

Carol 83

Flower Girl
Messages
11,126
Reaction score
27,129
Location
IL
I've been reading and re-reading your posts @Leo in N E Illinois. It's hard to see in this picture, but the lowest branch is green and on the left, a more lignified branch more toward the front with another directly to the right. Are you saying turn it 45degrees to the right and cut off the green branch? I might try and do this tomorrow, since it's supposed to be cold and crappy here. Nplum.jpg
 

Carol 83

Flower Girl
Messages
11,126
Reaction score
27,129
Location
IL
I probably didn't do it right, but I did it. There weren't as many roots as I thought there would be for being in the same pot for over two years, so I did the pie thing per @Bonsai Nut. Put it into a bigger training pot, and tried to follow @Leo in N E Illinois's suggestions. Hopefully I didn't do any serious damage. Couple of thorns got me in revenge for messing with it.np2.jpg np.jpg
 

Carol 83

Flower Girl
Messages
11,126
Reaction score
27,129
Location
IL
@Carol 83 , how did the tree do this year? I really like how you trimmed it in the spring. Any updated pictures?
It's doing fine, the growth this winter is not nearly as leggy as it was last year. I'll take a picture when I get home from work.
 
Top Bottom