Need help on Elm shohin

[JesusFreak]

Just bought a Chinese shohin elm from Wigerts and slightly disappointed. From my eye’s view I need to completely chop everything off and start fresh. The front has a huge chop mark and the back is bent over and needs to be removed as well. Also there’s some mold on it that I’m not too excited about. What should I do? Return it? Chop it? Hope for back budding after cleaning it up so I can start with decent structure. I mean even the lower branches are growing behind the tree and crossing so they need to go too. It’s a piece of crap if you ask me

 

[Forsoothe!]

OK, growth is congested into a non-shape. Choose a front, put it into a proper pot showing off the nebari. Tweak it into a more orderly form removing criss-crossing and surplus branches, etc. Make it economical in form. There's a bonsai hidden in there!

 

[JesusFreak]

I feel what needs to be done is take off everything and I hate I have to do that. When you say economical..what do you mean exactly? The bare essentials. Bc to me I can’t pick on branch that I would want to keep

 

[Forsoothe!]

Make Space.



Make space for the birdies to fly through. Ideally, you can see the undersides of major branches. Cut away foliage that grows into the branch above and do not allow foliage to grow down from branches. Make space between branches. The front allows a view of the interior of the tree. The rear of the tree has foliage blocking a view though the tree (except where a long branch gives the impression of depth of the tree).

 

[JesusFreak]

And what about the ugly thing in the back? The double branch whip?

 

[Forsoothe!]

You mean one of these?

 

[JesusFreak]

You mean one of these?
View attachment 314831

I’m actually referring to that point right there in between the red and yellow were they’re both growing in one direction. Basically two leaders over over crowding each other and allows no growth toward the back. I don’t want a tree that looks good from just one view. How depressing lol

 

[Forsoothe!]

The short answer is No. The movement in the trunks is interesting, at least from what I can see of it. You can have as many fronts as the tree will support. Most often there is only one best view, which is the default front. All other features of the tree are trimmed to accentuate the front, or hidden or removed if they detract from the front view. You can want whatever you want, but you got whatever you got and only the really good and the really lucky get more than one front. Wish in one hand...

 

[Forsoothe!]

Shoot a good view of your proposed front and we'll pick it to ribbons. (Or, give you a few hints)

 

[JesusFreak]

So due to the lack of new growth, muddy soil, and mold/fungus on the bark I decided to repot. I know I shouldn’t be reporting mid summer but I decided it’s what the tree needed at the moment. Also pruned up the unnecessary “twigs” too. Should I put it inside under grow lights or keep it outdoors and hope for the best?

 

[JoeR]

I dont think this elm is bad at all. Definitely do not put it inside, if you have already repotted just keep it under shade for a few weeks

 

[sorce]

So due to the lack of new growth, muddy soil, and mold/fungus on the bark I decided to repot. I know I shouldn’t be reporting mid summer but I decided it’s what the tree needed at the moment. Also pruned up the unnecessary “twigs” too. Should I put it inside under grow lights or keep it outdoors and hope for the best?

When Ryan Neil talks about reasons to Repot, these aren't them.
I find that to be one of the most important lessons from Mirai.

Glad you did the work though.
Keep us updated.

Sorce

 

[cmeg1]

Great virtual @Forsoothe!

At the right place for guidance @JesusFreak

 

[Forsoothe!]

When Ryan Neil talks about reasons to Repot, these aren't them.
I find that to be one of the most important lessons from Mirai.

Glad you did the work though.
Keep us updated.

Sorce

Next time, don't do major work on the top and bottom at the same time. Give the tree some time to adjust.

 

[Benauber]

As a new member of this forum, and new to bonsai, I appreciate the back and forth and the feedback you are giving on this tree. I have a Chinese elm, and seeing the adjustments and cuttings you do on a picture helps more than words

@Forsoothe! I see you are in Michigan, so am I. Quick question: where/how do you do with your tree in the winter?

Thank you

 

[Forsoothe!]

I set them in the garden, in contact with the soil, mulched with leaves over the pots with a 1 ft high shield to windward. Smaller plants protected in the interior of block(s) of larger plants. The leaves are the key. Oak leaves mat down the least, but they all work. This makes a really neat hotel for mice, et al, so you need to let the mice find an over-wintering place before you put your trees down. Generally, November 1st is good. It is weather dependent, so a nice fall will slow you down. I try to keep plants that I want to access earlier in the spring on the edges. Everything should be in full sun, even JM, to keep things accustomed to sun. I keep JM in full sun up to the end of May. Trees kept in shade or an outbuilding have a tendency to leaf out earlier than they can be brought out in to a sunny exposure where the leaves will burn at the edges. The trees are perfectly happy there in spring, so don't bring them out too early which warms the pots and accelerates spring growth needing protection from late frosts.

 

[Benauber]

Thanks very much
Would a south facing window in the attic of a garage suffice? I have limited exterior space, and if we have a tough winter, I am not sure if my tree can survive

 

[Forsoothe!]

Chinese Elm are very forgiving. They can be a houseplant over winter, but that saps the energy of the tree and is to be avoided. Is your garage attached? An unheated free-standing garage is best. No light at all would be better than a window exposure. The plant needs to be in quiescence for some number of days, I don't know the number of days. It should be cool and dry, under 40°F, ~35°F is best, and dark is fine when they are not growing. Provide mouse food, just in case. Basements are good. They need to be watered about once a month, the amount of water will depend upon the temperature and humidity. They don't use much water, but they don't use none, either. Transpiration through the bark continues in winter. A one gallon pot plant may need one pint to one quart once a month. Ideally, the plant wouldn't start to leaf out until the weather permitted putting the plant outdoors in spring. They always leaf out earlier than that and you have to put them out in the daytime and put them back indoors overnights that go lower than frost. This is the bonsai trot, or bonsai two-step.

 

[JesusFreak]

What about just leaving my Chinese elm and drake up where they are outside? I don’t have a garage. I can shove them under the house if I need to lol

 

[Forsoothe!]

You are in the deep south and someone else can give you better advice. I think you can just leave the Elm out in the sun, on the ground mulched with leaves. Somehow, I thought you were up north.