Need Help,Vine Maple Bonsai, Second Attempt

jomawa

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Another spring is here, so I went back to the woods for larger stock this time, to basically start all over. (No more bringing back 1/8" diameter stock, wow, did I really do that? Before I knew better, uhhh, yup, I did. Oh, and no I didn't just dump all those laughably small trees, I'm keeping them just for the continued learning process and reminder.) Noticed vine maples in shade under the tree canopy were light green bark color but those growing in the sun after the clear cutting a few years ago had more of the coral maple coloring. Also, those out in the sun have a more whethered/characteristic bark and tend to copiously backbud far more than those in the shade, which tend to have mostly bare trunks and much new growth only clear out at the top tips. Talked to a fellow at the local nursery and he tended to verify the more coral coloring is due to the sun. (see photos) Uprooted one from shady area and one from sunny area. Both tend to have club foot nebari. Do not know if I can force more root growth without literally grafting roots in, but I'm inclined to not do grafting and see what comes of it. Also took photos (see photos) of a vine maple in the sun I will air layer from, but ran out of time. The intent is to keep the broken fork section of the main trunk for a shari.
#1 - Vine maple from sunny logged clear cut:
DSCN2523.JPG DSCN2554.JPG DSCN2556.JPG DSCN2561.JPG DSCN2562.JPG DSCN2551.JPG
For any one who believes roots don't fuse in nature, note the fused on each end smaller diagonal root .
 

jomawa

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#2 - Vine maple form shady under the evergreen canopy. Note green rather than coral bark.
DSCN2535.JPG DSCN2545.JPG DSCN2547.JPG DSCN2540.JPG DSCN2544.JPG
Last photo underside of root ball, also showing removal of a major root stub seen protruding left in prior photo .
 
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jomawa

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#3 - Intended air layer from vine maple in full sun, air layering about where knife is in first photo and keeping section containing shari.
DSCN2515.JPG DSCN2516.JPG DSCN2517.JPG
Note also the deep scaring on the non-broken fork. The plan is to hollow some of that inner area out, (very nice that the tree lined these areas with thick scaring for me to follow).
 

jomawa

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I tend to be a craftsman rather than an artist or visionary. I can design and assemble things but am unable to "see" the bonsai within the tree. Nor am I artistically abled. So, I'm asking for input/coaching on these three trees. I sorta have hindsight ability, (oh crap, I should've/shouldn't have done that) rather than the ability to see the possibles in bonsai.
Question: tree from sunny - would you remove more of these branches?
Question: tree form shade - where/what would you remove? since I haven't done so at this point.
Question: when doing an air layer would it be better to scrape the trunk with something like teeth of a saw to expose some cambium rather than remove all off the cambium?
I welcome any and all other input/suggestions???
ps. Just bought myself (late christmas present) a pair of Ryuga 12s spherical cutters, $60. They seem to work rather well and leave a cut dish that should heal much nicer.
 
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jomawa

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OK, I guess I just gotta respond to this thread to pull it back to the mainstream of threads but have no idea how to encourage coaching from bnutters.
 

Tieball

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Hello.....from my time zone right now. A good number of the forum members that respond may well be asleep yet in their time zones. Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z

That saw idea is not a good idea. Just scrape it all off like you see in the air layering photographs you find. The tree will just quickly heal over a saw tooth mark...very quickly.
 

sorce

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OK, I guess I just gotta respond to this thread to pull it back to the mainstream of threads but have no idea how to encourage coaching from bnutters.
Damn....I remember reading this....I think I had to go walk the dog or something....
And I don't even have a yoyo!

Less typey more answers!

I understand digging for practice....
Digging anything.....
I'm with that.

But.....those first 2 are IMO, material that will need to be layered for a good root spread anyway....so I ask.....

Why not have airlayered/groundlayered them to begin with?

I got a short list of stuff that is hard to find that I will dig\attain with a "lack of" root base.....but just to propagate for more, layer a good tree off of.

The one you intend to layer......I don't see a spot that is worthwhile to layer....

I look for layers with segments of taper and movement already built in...
Something you can grow branches and roots with....and be done.

It looks like wherever you are digging, isn't very conducive to good root systems, like a bog, or a mountain pocket.....
That being the case.....
I would get real familiar with layering!
And finding those "ready made" sections to be layered.

Sorce
 

jomawa

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Digging ...I'm with that. first 2 need to be layered for a good root spread anyway....so I ask.....
Why not have airlayered/groundlayered them to begin with?
Intention was to yamadori vine maple. Had no knowledge of what to expect for "nebari", or suitability for bonsai. This is bonsai stage two for me. No more bringing home 1/8th inch (and minus) "tree trunks". Followed your former instruction/suggestion "dig rather than jerk with strap and chain". Dug #2 (green bark) in the shade under evergreen canopy. Came with club foot root even though had no rock. Dug #1 from out in clearcut logged area with bigger than fist sized rocks (sun must grow bigger rocks too?), club foot root, vine maple getting full sun thus the coral coloring and more coral tint bark character. Since I dug em (no pun intended), I took em home and potted in 80%pumice.
The one you intend to layer [#3] ......I don't see a spot that is worthwhile to layer....
Nice, but too late letting me know. Did it already. (see new photo) Thinking was to incorporate split jin on left fork somehow in ultimate bonsai.
DSCN2576.JPG
I look for layers with segments of taper and movement already built in...
Something you can grow branches and roots with....and be done.
So, my second air layer (see photo w/o foil) that I spotted while wraping the first also has ready made jin from logging this area, and yes it does have reverse taper that I consider excusable (but what do I know) due to the large cavity in it, (see knifeblade slipped deep inside).
DSCN2573.JPG DSCN2579.JPG
It looks like wherever you are digging, isn't very conducive to good root systems
With hands over my ears "lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala". But really, appreciate your input.
 
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