Need help with ID shimpaku?

Ming dynasty

Shohin
Messages
373
Reaction score
139
Location
Winder Georgia USA
USDA Zone
7B
Hey hope eveyone having a great Sunday. I was hoping someone here can help me ID this guy. He’s supposed to be some cultivars of shimpaku.
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    205.7 KB · Views: 78
  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    239.3 KB · Views: 56
  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    243.6 KB · Views: 74

Frozentreehugger

Masterpiece
Messages
2,074
Reaction score
2,376
Location
Ottawa Ontario Canada
USDA Zone
4
I think the answer is available in the history of the tree . Shimpaku itself is a cultivar of Chinese juniper . . Most of the masterpiece ancient collected trees in Japan . With amazing deadwood are shimpaku . Or at least those that are not are grafted with shimpaku . There are growers if shimpaku in North America for the garden nursery market . But they are not a everyday common plant to find . The ones I have came from a specialist conifer nursery here . The plants are grown and sold to them from iseli nursery in Oregon and only listed as shimpaku . I don’t want to muddy the waters to much . But there are at least 2 maybe more of named versions of shimpaku . With slightly different characteristics . That really are only available from dedicated bonsai growers . According to those that have them . So unless you purchased from one of them . If so I would think you would be aware what you have . So as I said what is the history of the plant . Mine have cinnamon coloured peeling bark . Which is a characteristic of shimpaku . Yours spear lighter coloured . Not saying it’s not Shinnaku just saying different then mine and or not clear in photo . All Chinese juniper make good bonsai . The compact tight foliage is very much shimpaku Hope this helps
 
D

Deleted member 32750

Guest
Shimpaku is not a cultivar. Its the japanese word for Chinese juniper.
From the looks of the foliage it looks like my itoigawa shimpaku foliage. Kishu tends to be a little more corse and a blue green color
 

Frozentreehugger

Masterpiece
Messages
2,074
Reaction score
2,376
Location
Ottawa Ontario Canada
USDA Zone
4
Dirr lists Shimpaku as a named cultivar of Juniperus Chinensis Described as low irregular vase shaped form gray- green needles flaking bark so I have to disagree with you
 

Ming dynasty

Shohin
Messages
373
Reaction score
139
Location
Winder Georgia USA
USDA Zone
7B
Shimpaku is not a cultivar. Its the japanese word for Chinese juniper.
From the looks of the foliage it looks like my itoigawa shimpaku foliage. Kishu tends to be a little more corse and a blue green color

That’s what I’m hoping it is. Got it from plant city bonsai. Steve said it is shimpaku. From my understanding, I thought shimpaku is a type of juniper chinensis. Within shimpaku there are itoigawa, kishu, and others. I’m so confused now.
 
D

Deleted member 32750

Guest
Perhaps this excerpt from Wikipedia will shed some light on your confusion.

“The Juniperus chinensis is one of the top species used in the Japanese art of bonsai, referred to as "Shimpaku." Among the multiple cultivars of Shimpaku found in Japan, the most desirable due to its tight, fine foliage and excellent growing habits, is the "Itoigawa" variety”

Shimpaku is what the Japanese have called Juniperus chinensis (chinese juniper) for centuries.

As you mentioned, there are selections of Shimpaku (Itoigawa, kishu, tohoku, and many others.) which are regional variants that have been been collected for centuries and propagated as “cultivars”

One thing that makes matters more difficult
Is that Itoigawa refers to Shimpaku that were collected from the mountains of the Niigata prefecture in Japan. Within Itoigawa there is a spectrum of foliage characteristics from extreme fine to more coarse. So not all itoigawa is created equal.
 

shimbrypaku

Shohin
Messages
421
Reaction score
412
Location
NC Zone 7
This is an itoigawa I purchased from evergreen garden works, the foliage is much finer on an itoigawa than kishu or standard shimpaku
 

Attachments

  • 9B091ADF-CBB5-414C-9B52-5498339D19A2.jpeg
    9B091ADF-CBB5-414C-9B52-5498339D19A2.jpeg
    282.5 KB · Views: 46

shimbrypaku

Shohin
Messages
421
Reaction score
412
Location
NC Zone 7
This shimpaku was sold as a kishu from telperion farms
 

Attachments

  • 9CCE95B8-0348-4A43-98B9-3861BABE6EF0.jpeg
    9CCE95B8-0348-4A43-98B9-3861BABE6EF0.jpeg
    402.8 KB · Views: 43
D

Deleted member 32750

Guest
Evidently the Japanese refer to any Juniperus species with scale like foliage as shinpaku
So rocky mountain juniper (not a juniperus Chinensis) would be considered a shinpaku as well to the Japanese

 

Ming dynasty

Shohin
Messages
373
Reaction score
139
Location
Winder Georgia USA
USDA Zone
7B
Perhaps this excerpt from Wikipedia will shed some light on your confusion.

“The Juniperus chinensis is one of the top species used in the Japanese art of bonsai, referred to as "Shimpaku." Among the multiple cultivars of Shimpaku found in Japan, the most desirable due to its tight, fine foliage and excellent growing habits, is the "Itoigawa" variety”

Shimpaku is what the Japanese have called Juniperus chinensis (chinese juniper) for centuries.

As you mentioned, there are selections of Shimpaku (Itoigawa, kishu, tohoku, and many others.) which are regional variants that have been been collected for centuries and propagated as “cultivars”

One thing that makes matters more difficult
Is that Itoigawa refers to Shimpaku that were collected from the mountains of the Niigata prefecture in Japan. Within Itoigawa there is a spectrum of foliage characteristics from extreme fine to more coarse. So not all itoigawa is created equal.


Any advice on care guide? Things to be aware of. Best practices, like/dislikes
 

Frozentreehugger

Masterpiece
Messages
2,074
Reaction score
2,376
Location
Ottawa Ontario Canada
USDA Zone
4
Juni
Perhaps this excerpt from Wikipedia will shed some light on your confusion.

“The Juniperus chinensis is one of the top species used in the Japanese art of bonsai, referred to as "Shimpaku." Among the multiple cultivars of Shimpaku found in Japan, the most desirable due to its tight, fine foliage and excellent growing habits, is the "Itoigawa" variety”

Shimpaku is what the Japanese have called Juniperus chinensis (chinese juniper) for centuries.

As you mentioned, there are selections of Shimpaku (Itoigawa, kishu, tohoku, and many others.) which are regional variants that have been been collected for centuries and propagated as “cultivars”

One thing that makes matters more difficult
Is that Itoigawa refers to Shimpaku that were collected from the mountains of the Niigata prefecture in Japan. Within Itoigawa there is a spectrum of foliage characteristics from extreme fine to more coarse. So not all itoigawa is created equal.
I Chinese juniper is the parent plant . Unique from other junipers to be listed as a separate plant type . Shimpaku is a named cultivar of Chinese juniper . Therefor it is recognized as having unique characteristics and growth habit from the parent plant . Recognized by the plant world as stated by Dirr wiki and the American conifer society . The naming of a cultivar requires proof and paperwork . Someone has done that so it is a named recognized cultivar of Chinese juniper . Said cultivar is native to Japan and obviously has been there for a long time . As the Japanese can attest to . I am unaware what to refer to the other 2 as . Looks like they are variations of shimpaku as described by the Japanese . I see no reference to them being separate cultivars of CJ They apear to be variations of shimpaku as noticed or cultivated by the Japanese . I suppose you could say they are Chinese juniper cultivar shimpaku sub variant ~~~~~. As stated by the Japanese. .
 
D

Deleted member 32750

Guest
Any advice on care guide? Things to be aware of. Best practices, like/dislikes
Im currently growing mine out from rooted cuttings that bought and will be training them as shohin bonsai.

They’re not really fussy plants and are easy to take care of. They like to dry out between waterings but they seem to like to be more moist than a pine. Ive been fertilizing them very heavily with osmocote plus and they have responded well.

if you are going you are going to do heavy bending or if you are going to twist up young whips I would do that in the fall time
 

Frozentreehugger

Masterpiece
Messages
2,074
Reaction score
2,376
Location
Ottawa Ontario Canada
USDA Zone
4
Evidently the Japanese refer to any Juniperus species with scale like foliage as shinpaku
So rocky mountain juniper (not a juniperus Chinensis) would be considered a shinpaku as well to the Japanese

Very interesting vid like you say . I guess the Japanese refer to all scale junipers as shimpaku . Interesting that the word is not that old . But it all makes sense . We sometimes forget world travel is fairly new to mankind . So on there islands fir all there history they just started referring to there junipers by the area they came from . And there different features might not even been aware there were similar plants in China . At least on a wide spread scale
 
Top Bottom