Need help with solving tree issues

[remist17]

I keep getting trees coming up with what appears to be leaf burn. First was hornbeam. Crunch leaves then they all fall off. New leaves come out and immidiatly brown on ends. Next was a field elm same pattern. Followed by korean hornbeam and now crabapple is starting.

All trees were in shade with no direct sun. All watered as needed. Fertilized with miracle grow liquid two times per month. All were potted in 10" bulb pots this spring.

Need help.

 

[Beng]

Try a different fertilizer, maybe something organic. Or try cutting your miracle grow fertilizer application in half.

 

[remist17]

I thought I was burning them so I have not put any fertilizer out for 6 weeks now. See my other post on posting photos of fertilizer burn.

Im thinking im messing up good trees but I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Ill post photos tomorrow

 

[coh]

Why were you keeping the trees in shade? That makes me wonder if you've been keeping them too wet leading to root issues. I lost a small cotoneaster a couple of years ago to wet roots and rot, and the symptoms were that leaves would come out, turn yellow/brown, and drop prematurely. The cycle repeated a number of times until the plant finally died. I don't know if that's your problem but something to perhaps consider.

Chris

 

[GrimLore]

Odd thing started happening this past week. Both potted Crabapples are on the back patio, same 20 gallon well draining pots, one in semi shade one in full sun. Both get the same nutrients and water and have done well until now. They both get new leaves along the branches and trunks which turn yellow and drop overnight. The end growth on the branches is full and healthy
The exact same scenario for two potted Roses and the same leaf drop, argh
All of the rest of the potted patio plants and trees are doing ok, including a plum tree, conifers, cherry trees, elms, and sumac. I am a bit lost on this one

 

[JudyB]

fungal? I have had the same problem to some extent this year, and have been spraying with daconil to control with good results. The crab was, and still is the worst. But they are extremely prone to any and all fungal diseases.

 

[Beng]

Second what Judy said. I use Honor guard mixed with mancozeb on my crabapples and roses now.

 

[GrimLore]

Looking at the plants where this occurred again this morning I do not see anything to would indicate a fungus or otherwise on the crabs or roses. I did however find one leaf on a crab that had well over 60 white eggs about 1/32" and at the base of the tree I found several reddish brown dead beetles. I burnt the leaf and sprayed the pot and ground surface as a precaution.

Thank you both though - I am going to the local supply/feed dealer in the morning and with pick up an antifungal as well. My luck would be that both things are a problem

Thank you again

Grimmy

NOTE: Most American Crabs have been cultivated to be extremely fungal resistant, the Orchard is fine even the Plums which always are a challenge. The part that confuses me is that the problem is only occurring in two potted crabs and roses, none of our other growing areas exhibit this problem.

 

[GrimLore]

I keep getting trees coming up with what appears to be leaf burn. First was hornbeam. Crunch leaves then they all fall off. New leaves come out and immidiatly brown on ends. Next was a field elm same pattern. Followed by korean hornbeam and now crabapple is starting.

All trees were in shade with no direct sun. All watered as needed. Fertilized with miracle grow liquid two times per month. All were potted in 10" bulb pots this spring.

Need help.

Sorry but I did not intentionally steal your thread. As to your brown-tipping leaf growths and dropping I have the same types of trees and they are most happy in full sun, seem to like a daily rinse, and I triple fertilize regularly with a 20-20-20 mix. I would move them daily closer to full sun, heavy fert, and light water them until they take the full sun again. Seems to me they are at the start of a root problem but honest it is early so I would not repot or go extreme We both had a out of control 11-12 inches of rain last month and our trees need to now re-acclimate to a full on heat wave...

 

[remist17]

Im not sure about root issued yet. I have a surface pin bark mix. Hornbeam started with leaved burning and dropping leaves. Now both are dead. One elm started the same now dead.
Im going to pull the crab and another elm and reply in quicker draining soil.
Any ideas on my issue or supporting the thoughts of strange spring to very hot summer?

 

[GO-OK]

Is your soil generally always moist or do you allow it to dry out at all? Also what time of day do you generally water. Fast draining soil helps, but if your watering habit in general is incorrect you will continue to have some issues....or at least trees that are not as strong as they could be.

 

[Beng]

NOTE: Most American Crabs have been cultivated to be extremely fungal resistant, the Orchard is fine even the Plums which always are a challenge. The part that confuses me is that the problem is only occurring in two potted crabs and roses, none of our other growing areas exhibit this problem.

Sorry but I did not intentionally steal your thread. As to your brown-tipping leaf growths and dropping I have the same types of trees and they are most happy in full sun, seem to like a daily rinse, and I triple fertilize regularly with a 20-20-20 mix. I would move them daily closer to full sun, heavy fert, and light water them until they take the full sun again. Seems to me they are at the start of a root problem but honest it is early so I would not repot or go extreme We both had a out of control 11-12 inches of rain last month and our trees need to now re-acclimate to a full on heat wave...

I have to disagree and say that I've never had a crabapple that didn't have a fungal problem at some time or another. Despite claims of disease resistance they are not very. I have a Nagasaki crabapple that has almost no problems but my large collected American crab has a bout at least once a year whih is why I now spray preventativly. I have another 6 types of crabs in grow pots and they all have a fungal problem from time to time. Crabapples, quince, hawthorn, apples, other fruit trees all are susceptible to fungus. I'd suggest you use a fungicide maybe try Judy's suggestion. I also wouldn't hit it with 20/20/20 right off the bat, try a organic 5/5/5 with humic acid and micronutrients, or use something like gro-power tabs. Also keep the foliage dry, I never ever spray the foliage on any of my broad leaf trees, only junipers get that. I had that crazy amount of rain here too, but I now have no fungus problems on my crabapples due to well timed spraying.

Ben

 

[coh]

Im not sure about root issued yet. I have a surface pin bark mix. Hornbeam started with leaved burning and dropping leaves. Now both are dead. One elm started the same now dead.
Im going to pull the crab and another elm and reply in quicker draining soil.
Any ideas on my issue or supporting the thoughts of strange spring to very hot summer?

Are the hornbeams and elm definitely dead (no green if you scratch the bark)?

I don't remember if you said anything about this, but for the above 3 trees - did you do anything to all 3 of them this growing season, such as repot into a new soil mixture, or use a new fertilizer that you bought this year? If yes to either, maybe there was some kind of contamination.

I remember a thread on IBC a year or two ago where someone lost a whole bunch of trees in a short period of time. I don't think a cause was ever identified but one suggestion was that perhaps there was some foul play involved, such as someone intentionally spraying the trees with herbicide.

If there is an active group near you (or an experienced grower), maybe take the trees to them for an evaluation. Probably much easier to identify potential causes in person.

Good luck, please let us know if you figure this out.

Chris

 

[remist17]

One hornbeam was new this year and was slip potted with new soil.
Older hornbeam was also repotted this year.
Crab was not repotted.
Elm was not repotted

I water in the evening which I know can lead to fungus problems but is what I can do.
Since the area is so humid this year the pots are not dring out very much and to be honest I have not actually watered in a while. The rain has been doing it for me

I scratched each tree before pulling them. The bark just flacked off and no green all the way down to the root.

Fertilizer was changed to a 10-10-10 granular which I though I burnt the trees with. I have since washed the dirt with several large washings through the soil. I have not fertiliezed in 7 weeks now.

The strange things is... My maples they are doing great this year. No leaf burn, no major bugs.
My chinese elm has never been so full with leaves and is looking great. All of these were potted this spring with the same mix.

I am using a turface and soil conidtioner mix. 3 to 1 ratio. So it has some organic mixture. I did change the conditioner. The older type was no longer carried. I did not see anything in the mix that would create issues.

Maybe with all the rain, bugs etc this year the weeker trees are not making it? I decided this is the natural selection and the strongest will survive. Is this a bad thinking>?

 

[GrimLore]

We lost over 20 trees due to that hot spell in the Spring followed by cooler normal Spring weather then changing to warm and mass amounts of rain. They all pushed when it got hot early and went dormant shortly after never to return.

 

[GrimLore]

Thank you for the advise/observations. I spent a good deal of time Sunday making sure all bad foliage was removed and burnt. Being satisfied it is not an Insect problem I went to the Supply on Monday and picked up Copper Soap and treated all the problem plants which of course was promptly rained on after application. This morning I reapplied and will sit back and see what happens I used the Copper soap because one rose and apple that needed treatment flank a thundercloud plum which does not get adversely affected by it.

 

[remist17]

Did some more looking and below is the organic mix I use along with the Turface. Is this bad and causing my issues?
-processed pine bark fines, sphagnum peat moss and leaf compost.

This was the only thing I could find that had .25" pine bark. Could this be holding onto the fertilizer and kiling off the trees? I am really thinking the issue is ferilizer burn and soil remaining to wet.

 

[GrimLore]

"soil remaining to wet"

I suspect the last month of rain and to much organic is probably eating the roots at this point or has done some root damage. I really doubt the fertilizer is a problem

 

[remist17]

So do I pull the trees out and repot them with dry inorganics? or let them be?
Most of them are in 8 or 10" bulb pots and sitting on something to get at least one side off the wood for drainage.

The funny thing is I did not see any yellow leaves or telling me it was wet. Just went from healthy leaves to curl to dead.

I guess main issue is do I pull them now and slip pot into dry soil ? Let them be? or a third option to be named by someone else

 

[GrimLore]

So do I pull the trees out and repot them with dry inorganics? or let them be?
Most of them are in 8 or 10" bulb pots and sitting on something to get at least one side off the wood for drainage.

The funny thing is I did not see any yellow leaves or telling me it was wet. Just went from healthy leaves to curl to dead.

I guess main issue is do I pull them now and slip pot into dry soil ? Let them be? or a third option to be named by someone else

Myself I would pop them out and really take a close look at the roots and in addition really pay attention for any type of bug in that inorganic. We do have cutworms in our region that love that type of soil and they eat roots.

That will also give you the option of drying them up a bit and getting inorganic. It appears from what you say you are loosing plants so although it may not be the best time to repot we sometimes have to. Same as cutting a branch "out of" the proper time envelope.