Need Pine advice

[B-funk allstars]

Hi, I need some info. I ordered some pitch pine with the intention of ground growing them for many years but instead I received Virginia pine. So I have a couple questions for those who have or are currently growing this species.
1. Is it worth me spending 10 years fattening the trunk on these trees if they are not usable as bonsai?
2. If you do grow them successfully, do they back bud from the trunk of a younger tree that I can develop. They don’t have great lower branches .
3. Any tips for this species
4. Any pics of these trees you have as bonsai
Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[August44]

I ordered some pitch pines last year from a Etsy nursery on line and got one very short one and a tall one, both with sparce branching even though I explained what the tree was for and that I would like good branching. I would still like to get some nice pitch pines if anyone knows where to purchase some.

 

[B-funk allstars]

I ordered some pitch pines last year from a Etsy nursery on line and got one very short one and a tall one, both with sparce branching even though I explained what the tree was for and that I would like good branching. I would still like to get some nice pitch pines if anyone knows where to purchase some.

Ordered from this Tennessee nursery and at first they tried telling me that what they sent was pitch pine. Then apologized and sent me more trees which I received today. Which are also NOT pitch pine. So I can’t help you with that.

 

[GGB]

I think it was John G who was using virginia pine with some (imo) good results. I thought they were only hardy to zone 6 or so, might have to protect them in your climate. Needles are naturally short so that's cool. I hear they don't thicken up very quickly which makes sense since the wild ones I see are all pretty skinny tall trees. Don't know much about back budding when young but I'll bet they'll give you somehting if treated like young JBP, just a hunch though. I have tried growing this species a few times and I don't know what it is but I kill them all instantly. It's really strange because I'm not that guy who kills trees. In fact my horticulture/husbandry is the only part of this hobby I've really got down. except this damn species.... sucks 'cause I like them personally

 

[B-funk allstars]

I think it was John G who was using virginia pine with some (imo) good results. I thought they were only hardy to zone 6 or so, might have to protect them in your climate. Needles are naturally short so that's cool. I hear they don't thicken up very quickly which makes sense since the wild ones I see are all pretty skinny tall trees. Don't know much about back budding when young but I'll bet they'll give you somehting if treated like young JBP, just a hunch though. I have tried growing this species a few times and I don't know what it is but I kill them all instantly. It's really strange because I'm not that guy who kills trees. In fact my horticulture/husbandry is the only part of this hobby I've really got down. except this damn species.... sucks 'cause I like them personally

It says zone 4-8 for Virginia pine but I wasn’t sure about that. They sent me 4 more Virginia pine labeled as pitch pine. So I’m not sure what they’ll say this time. I don’t know if they even know the difference. I know pitch pine will survive here since its lowest Temp is -40.

 

[B-funk allstars]

I think it was John G who was using virginia pine with some (imo) good results. I thought they were only hardy to zone 6 or so, might have to protect them in your climate. Needles are naturally short so that's cool. I hear they don't thicken up very quickly which makes sense since the wild ones I see are all pretty skinny tall trees. Don't know much about back budding when young but I'll bet they'll give you somehting if treated like young JBP, just a hunch though. I have tried growing this species a few times and I don't know what it is but I kill them all instantly. It's really strange because I'm not that guy who kills trees. In fact my horticulture/husbandry is the only part of this hobby I've really got down. except this damn species.... sucks 'cause I like them personally

I don’t see a John G on the site. Not sure I’ll have more success with vp than you but I’ll try to make something out of them. Maybe 20 years from now it’ll be the best tree I have. lol

 

[GGB]

Oh yeah, they are hardy to 4 it looks like, they natural grow in 6 and above but they can handle more. did the website you buy from use scientific names? And JohnG is just his bnut name. he's fairly well known if you google or youtube him, real life name is John Geanangel. I'm pretty sure I'm thinking of the right guy......

 

[B-funk allstars]

Oh yeah, they are hardy to 4 it looks like, they natural grow in 6 and above but they can handle more. did the website you buy from use scientific names? And JohnG is just his bnut name. he's fairly well known if you google or youtube him, real life name is John Geanangel. I'm pretty sure I'm thinking of the right guy......

Said pitch pine and in the description said Pinus rigida. I know it’s not pitch because the needles are in pairs and not threes. Customer service originally tried telling me it was the same thing. I sent back pictures of their own website explaining they aren’t the same tree. Originally was just going to plant seeds and I couldn’t even find those for sale. Must be a pitch pine shortage.

 

[August44]

I have dealt with that nursery in Tenn before. They are crooks and scammers in my opinion. They also had terrible reviews awhile back. Paypal took my money out of there account finally.

 

[B-funk allstars]

I have dealt with that nursery in Tenn before. They are crooks and scammers in my opinion. They also had terrible reviews awhile back. Paypal took my money out of there account finally.

Well they said they’d send me the 4 trees I ordered. Instead they sent me 3 trees, which also were not pitch pine. I’m thinking you might be right.

 

[johng]

Lots of folks are growing VP with good success. My only caveat would be to container grow them and don't put them in the ground. Very difficult to successfully remove from the ground after even a couple years of growth. I was experimenting to try to find the best time to dig and only ended up with 9 survivors from 42 seedlings after being in the ground for about 3 seasons. Results were inconclusive.

 

[B-funk allstars]

Lots of folks are growing VP with good success. My only caveat would be to container grow them and don't put them in the ground. Very difficult to successfully remove from the ground after even a couple years of growth. I was experimenting to try to find the best time to dig and only ended up with 9 survivors from 42 seedlings after being in the ground for about 3 seasons. Results were inconclusive.

I was going to root pouch (telperion model). For a few years and then pull out to check for escape roots. Possibly put in a new pouch if needing more time and if it’s deteriorating. Then try the top down method described at farm to table to start getting the roots adjusted and moving it to a nursery pot.

 

[B-funk allstars]

Lots of folks are growing VP with good success. My only caveat would be to container grow them and don't put them in the ground. Very difficult to successfully remove from the ground after even a couple years of growth. I was experimenting to try to find the best time to dig and only ended up with 9 survivors from 42 seedlings after being in the ground for about 3 seasons. Results were inconclusive.

Do you have any pics of the survivors? Btw those bald cypress you have look awesome.

 

[johng]

https://www.bonsainut.com/search/684262/?q=Virginia+Pine&c[users]=johng&o=date

 

[BrightsideB]

That’s not right that they sent you another specie than the one you ordered. Sorry to hear about that.

 

[B-funk allstars]

https://www.bonsainut.com/search/684262/?q=Virginia+Pine&c[users]=johng&o=date

Thanks, you said 3 years in field from seedlings. How many more years in progression until these pictures were taken? Thanks for your advice.

 

[MaciekA]

The “not usable as bonsai” part is not true. Virginia pine is part of the subsection contortae group of species which means it’s closely related to lodgepole, shore, and jack pine. These are excellent pine bonsai species. Pines in this group are very easily to bend and make good bunjin. You should wire at the earliest opportunity.

You can get good growth rates whether you put these in the ground or not as long as you grow them in airy soil, airy containers, full baking sun exposure. You can get your telfarms root escape via container stacking. I do this with my contorta, watching for roots at the bottoms of trays or baskets and then stacking when they start poking out (w soil being either pure pumice, pure lava, or mixtures of the two). This should work with p. virginiana too.

 

[B-funk allstars]

The “not usable as bonsai” part is not true. Virginia pine is part of the subsection contortae group of species which means it’s closely related to lodgepole, shore, and jack pine. These are excellent pine bonsai species. Pines in this group are very easily to bend and make good bunjin. You should wire at the earliest opportunity.

You can get good growth rates whether you put these in the ground or not as long as you grow them in airy soil, airy containers, full baking sun exposure. You can get your telfarms root escape via container stacking. I do this with my contorta, watching for roots at the bottoms of trays or baskets and then stacking when they start poking out (w soil being either pure pumice, pure lava, or mixtures of the two). This should work with p. virginiana too.

Thank you, other than a really thick one they sent they all are very pliable still. I tried using 4 gauge copper and could only get a slight bend on the thick one.