New better Product on the market to replace Akadama

[Adair M]

I think whoever creates the next best thing to akadama and can cut the price down will be well off.

Most of the cost of akadama is the cost of shipping. In Japan, akadama is cheap! The high price most of us have to pay is due to cost of shipping “dirt” from one side of the globe to the other.

 

[Colorado]

@Sakadama I will look forward to trying it once it becomes available in the US.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Most of the cost of akadama is the cost of shipping. In Japan, akadama is cheap! The high price most of us have to pay is due to cost of shipping “dirt” from one side of the globe to the other.

Yep. That’s why many clubs buy akadama by the pallet for members. It really cuts down the shipping costs.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[River's Edge]

Yep. That’s why many clubs buy akadama by the pallet for members. It really cuts down the shipping costs.

Cheers
DSD sends

Sometimes the higher temperatures can be simply to meet export/import requirements set by certain countries. It is often a factor in acceptability. The import regulations for Canada for example make it easier to import the higher fired products as they are considered a lower risk for insects and disease. Other factors are the degree of screening of unwanted materials such as pieces of roots still in the bag. Wholesale cost can often be less than half of the retail when purchased by the pallet and even more when containers are purchased. The risk ( cost ) is often associated with customs clearance if the product arrives and is not up to the expected standards. Very expensive when a shipment is rejected for entry!
In the past this has caused some retailers to discontinue handling Akadama and Kanuma.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Yep, the US heat treatment requirements for “soil” are

Two treatments are authorized for soil: (1) Dry heat at 250 o F. for at least two hours and (2) Steam heat at the same temperature for 30 minutes with 15" pressure.

https://ehs.ucsc.edu/shipping/import-soil.pdf

Maybe it’s another country that requires higher heating. Alternately, this higher temperature treatment is required to create the conditions conducive to creating the particular products….

Perhaps the South African sakadama product needs a higher temperature to produce a product with comparable qualities as Japanese akadama.

We will likely know more as sakadama makes its debut.

I’ll be very interested in the economics off this product. That’s because a voyage from South Africa to Charleston is over 12,600 km while one from Toyko to San Fran is over 8,200 km. The difference is a whole lot of diesel! Then there’s the trade deficit with SA, especially with hard goods. So looking forward to seeing the new product. Bring it on!

Best
DSD sends

 

[Ohmy222]

The price of Akadama will likely skyrocket. Places like Bonsai Tonight, Superfly Bonsai, and Bonsai Outlet have been out for most of the growing season too. Ocean shipping is 5-10X what it was a year and half ago. Importing from Africa will not be any better and even more unreliable. The key is to find a 'local' solution or it will always be expensive. As Adair said, the price is largely transportation, not product. That even applies to dirt at Home Depot.

 

[cmeg1]

Has anyone tried alibaba for akadama……..it is not very hard to get import permits from whoever……I was able to get many seed import permits in like a day from usda.Some akadama seller can go bu kilogram for smaller order….though I did not do the math

Akadama-Akadama Manufacturers, Suppliers and Exporters on Alibaba.comOther Garden Supplies

Akadama Manufacturers & Akadama Suppliers Directory - Find a Akadama Manufacturer and Supplier. Choose Quality Akadama Manufacturers, Suppliers, Exporters at Alibaba.com.Other Garden Supplies

m.alibaba.com

 

[Maiden69]

I am interested in the hardness discussion. Is it really true that if akadama or kanuma becomes so hard it can last in the pot for 6+ years without falling apart, that means it is also too hard for roots to grow into the particles, limiting root growth of the planet? I am really a bit skeptical here.

Isn't it the pores that allow roots to grow into the particles? And not the roots cracking the particles open?

Akadama and Kanuma don't become hard. The hard akadama is fired to a higher temperature, which oftentimes prevents the particle to breakdown with the roots as you stated. Kanuma is soft... way softer than akadama, this is why its so good for azaleas. In Mirai streams Ryan has repotted trees that have been in 100% akadama for over 6 years, and there are still intact particles in the soil. But from what I have seen here, most people repot their trees within the 2-5 year mark depending on species and weather conditions.

The pores grow through the particles and split them open, if the particle don't split open the root tip will die entrapped inside it.

Turface and Monto clay are not similar to Akadama or Kanuma. Turface and Monto clays have significantly higher calcium contents. They are not equivalent.

Leo, I think firing their "akadama" to 600C will change the characteristics of the clay making it more like Monto Clay, Turface, Bonsai Block, etc...

Akadama is fired to 300C / 572F

Not all are fired. Most are heated to slightly above 250F for short periods of time.

From Jonas website - https://bonsaitonight.com/bonsai-soil-wholesale-orders/

Akadama is a product that is mined in Japan, air-dried, sifted, and bagged in different sizes. Akadama is often characterized as being either hard or soft. The brands I carry are “hard” akadamas. Like “soft” akadama, hard akadama breaks down over time but at a slower rate. Hard akadamas differ from fired akadamas as these don’t break down and have limited utility for bonsai. Some akadama brands flash heat the product before it is bagged. This flash heating has little, if any, effect on hardness.

Info on Akadama on Jonas website.

All about akadama - Bonsai Tonight

Akadama is a fundamental component of bonsai soil. It is used throughout Japan as a potting medium for both bonsai and general gardening purposes. More and

bonsaitonight.com

 

[BrightsideB]

Most of the cost of akadama is the cost of shipping. In Japan, akadama is cheap! The high price most of us have to pay is due to cost of shipping “dirt” from one side of the globe to the other.

That’s what I mean, Americans are paying a hefty premium for “dirt.” @Deep Sea Diver Even if clubs and individuals are putting their money together the shipping cost is still the same they just save some money individually in the end.

 

[Mikecheck123]

Has anyone posted a price comparison between akadama and sakadama?

 

[Glaucus]

Akadama and Kanuma don't become hard. The hard akadama is fired to a higher temperature, which oftentimes prevents the particle to breakdown with the roots as you stated. Kanuma is soft... way softer than akadama, this is why its so good for azaleas. In Mirai streams Ryan has repotted trees that have been in 100% akadama for over 6 years, and there are still intact particles in the soil. But from what I have seen here, most people repot their trees within the 2-5 year mark depending on species and weather conditions.

The point is that Sakadama is supposed to be harder and that volcanic substrates from places other than Japan could also be harder. Hence 'if akadama or kanuma becomes so harder ...'.

Also, I really doubt that roots will choke on particles that don't have complete tunnels Any evidence for this?

I have seen people complain about akadama breaking down becauase of frost cycles. So if you say Ryan Neal has trees in akadama for 6 years and it is still intact, I guess that is not what I mean. Kanuma definitely is soft. I believe it would be a better product when harder. Would also prevent dust and a need to sieve.

 

[Maiden69]

The point is that Sakadama is supposed to be harder and that volcanic substrates from places other than Japan could also be harder. Hence 'if akadama or kanuma becomes so harder ...'.

Also, I really doubt that roots will choke on particles that don't have complete tunnels Any evidence for this?

I have seen people complain about akadama breaking down becauase of frost cycles. So if you say Ryan Neal has trees in akadama for 6 years and it is still intact, I guess that is not what I mean. Kanuma definitely is soft. I believe it would be a better product when harder. Would also prevent dust and a need to sieve.

Sakadama is harder because it is fired at 600C... which is pretty much the lower setting for firing pottery. Might as well get some terracotta pots and smash them and use them as your substrate, which by the way is what people are doing in countries that can't get akadama in. White roots tips choke on holes they can not break through... this is one if the main key points for entrapment root pruning. Go do some research on Dr. Carl Whitcomb and his Root Maker.

The soil I spoke above with Ryan broke down as supposed to... there were still some intact particles from there roots had not populated the pot. Meaning they did not break down with freeze/thaw cycles.

Sakadama would be a great developing substrate, but not for refinement... although some people have nice trees in hard clay substrates.

You still don't understand the benefit of kanuma and akadama breaking down. Since you didn't check the article I posted above, here are the key points. The same applies to kanuma.

Why is Akadama Used for Bonsai Soil?​

Akadama is effective as a potting medium for bonsai because it has good water retention properties and it drains well. Even better, akadama particles slowly break down over time.

When bonsai are transplanted, cut roots need soil that drains well to stimulate the production of new roots. These roots grow quickly and help trees recover from the stress of repotting.

Over time, root growth and consistent watering break down akadama particles. As the particles break down and become smaller, their ability to hold water increases. Given enough time, the particles will completely break down until all that is left are tiny pieces of clay.

The breakdown of soil particles is important in the cultivation of bonsai as smaller soil particles promote slower growth. During the refinement stages of bonsai development, slow growth is a primary goal as vigorous shoots can thicken branches and make old trees look young.

As akadama continues to break down and roots begin to fill the pot, drainage can slow to a crawl. Keeping bonsai happy in soil that drains poorly is difficult as roots need both air and water to stay healthy. When drainage is poor, watering is done with care until the tree can be safely repotted during the next repotting season. Once in new soil, the bonsai regain some vigor and the process repeats.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Some really good discussion…. and very interesting. Thanks fo r the references @Maiden69

Yet I’m not clear on some of the terms, data source and conceptual information. Can you please clarify.

For example what is the difference between “Fired akadama“ and “Heated akadama.” Speed of heating?

Please provide data on ”only heated to 250 F degrees for a short period of time”… resource and which specific brands? This might help folks sort out different brands characteristics and tailor their purchases. (If you don’t have access to this information, perhaps I can ask Jonas who imports the akadama for our club.)

As someone who has noted specific instances roots penetrating granite over a long period of time on local trails; also soaked the really hard akadama and found it to soften over time. So it seems to be more a matter of elapsed time that one is discussing here Avis a vis root penetration…. As it seems to difficult to comprehend a tree root would penetrate any substance we use that is subjected to the freeze thaw cycle and just be stopped…. Maybe until the next freeze thaw cycle….?

Is this concept perhaps an issue of our bonsai time scale?

best
DSD sends

 

[SeanS]

Has anyone posted a price comparison between akadama and sakadama?

I can post a local South African market comparison as I’m from here.

Akadama (17L Kobayashi hard akadama): R480 = R28.24/L
Akadama (14L Ibaraki hard akadama): R460 = R32.86/L

Sakadama (6kg/7L): R150 = R21.43/L
Sakadama (25kg/~29L): R600 = R20.69/L

I contemplated Sakadama when it came to buying soil for this spring’s repotting but opted for the Kobayashi akadama listed above. I have seen zero coverage or usage data of Sakadama in SA, besides Willow’s promo emails. I’ll stick with tried and trusted akadama until there’s more hard data/reviews of the product in our local market.

My views of our local bonsai scene is that those that are serious and knowledgeable will stick with akadama if they’re going to fork out large sums for soil. The rest of the local scene are happy with garden mud or other locally available organic based soils. This later group would be out off by the prices of akadama or Sakadama either way, while the former group would probably buy trusted akadama in that price range. These are just my views though.

 

[Maiden69]

For example what is the difference between “Fired akadama“ and “Heated akadama.” Speed of heating?

One of the websites you posted (Akadama-Tuchi) above state that their akadama is fired at 300C. There is another brand I seen that posts the same number. The Double Red Line that Jonas import as far as I know it's baked at 200C, this is done to kill pathogens that may still be in the soil. This is the reason you find small twigs and roots when you sieve it.

Please provide data on ”only heated to 250 F degrees for a short period of time”… resource and which specific brands? This might help folks sort out different brands characteristics and tailor their purchases. (If you don’t have access to this information, perhaps I can ask Jonas who imports the akadama for our club.)

can't find the link to the 250F, I'll try at home since the firewall at work blocks almost every website running low TLS

This is a bookmark I saved last year, it is not opening at work, but I found a reference in Bonsai Empire with a quote from it. In there, there is a link to a Japanese website where they posted the information.

http://forum.dwerggarnalen.nl/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6888

"Akadama, as the common opinion in the Internet is, is burnt clay – and one can even read that there is a simple and double baked Akadama. [...] one speaks of drying when temperatures are lower than around 900°C, and one speaks of baking or burning when temperature is higher than 900°C.

In the Akadama procuction, the clay first is cleaned, kibbled and sieved in three different grains sizes: 1. small grain (1-5mm), 2. middle grain (5-10mm ), 3. large grain (10-25mm ). Later, it is dried at temperatures around 200°C.

The so-called Yaki Akadama in contrast really is baked at higher temperatures (1200°C), which gives the grains higher form stability.

Ibuki - 450C - They state that the temperature is low enough water inside the particle doesn't evaporate and that the CEC is not altered. But If that is so, they probably "flash" fire it, as if the internal temperature of the particle reaches 100C the water inside will evaporate.

Substrate | Fired Akadama | IBUKI Studio Bonsai & Ceramics

Fired Akadama MIX allows mature trees to be repotted much much less frequently.

ibuki-shop.com

Clay is calcined at temperatures between 450-850C depending on the type of clay. This is how turface, Monto Clay, etc... are created.

Adding Scotts thread for reference. Starting on post#52 is the Akadama description.

Introductory soil physics

Questions about soil physics come up all the time and I find that I repeat myself a lot on this topic. I'm going to try and write a reference for folks to refer to on this topic. I'm expressly NOT going to offer you any advice on what soil you should use in your garden, whether you should use...

www.bonsainut.com

Introductory soil physics

One thing I would think is that saturation zone goes up with coarse on the bottom so I would thing the saturation zone would go lower. Love this thread. Well done and thanks. Hi c54fun - that's the right idea, but it was fines migration that Davetree noticed. The fines moved down to the bottom...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Thanks for chiming in with this data and your thoughts. @SeanS !

Akadama (17L Kobayashi hard akadama): R480 = R28.24/L. 32.40 USD. = 1.91 USD/L.
Akadama (14L Ibaraki hard akadama): R460 = R32.86/L. 31.05 USD = 2.21 USD/L

Sakadama (6kg/7L): R150 = R21.43/L. 10.13 USD = 1.45 USD/L
Sakadama (25kg/~29L): R600 = R20.69/L. 40.40 USD = 1.39 USD/L

Actually your akadama prices aren’t much different then ours was two months ago, if one takes off the shipping costs, I pay much more, except from the club. Now our prices are definitely going up…. almost 30% in the past two months from one of my suppliers due to the recent shipping issues. Their Kobayashi price went from 28.00 to 37.00 US last week! Lucky I have 3 full bags in the garage!

Cheers DSD sends

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Ibuki - 450C - They state that the temperature is low enough water inside the particle doesn't evaporate and that the CEC is not altered. But If that is so, they probably "flash" fire it, as if the internal temperature of the particle reaches 100C the water inside will evaporate.

Substrate | Fired Akadama | IBUKI Studio Bonsai & Ceramics

Fired Akadama MIX allows mature trees to be repotted much much less frequently.

ibuki-shop.com

Thanks for that fast footwork @Maiden69 ! You have indeed been doing your homework on this topic.

I PM’ed with @Walter Pall back in June about his thoughts on the super hard akadama and his only issue from his standpoint was “It’s really expensive”.

Glad to see his review on the Ibuki site.

Hopefully our prices will come down once the West Coast shipping bottleneck is resolved here in the US.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Maiden69]

Hopefully our prices will come down once the West Coast shipping bottleneck is resolved here in the US.

I haven't seen the prices go up that much. Jonas still has the same prices, he is just sold out most of the time so you have to get him as soon as he receives the shipment. If you follow his blog, he usually posts there the week he gets the shipment in.

Walter does not like akadama at all... he does advocate about inorganic soils, but I think he also adds a little peat moss. Don't remember well right now. I am using Monto Clay and Bonsai Block with pumice and lava for my trees in development. I'm saving the akadama I have for when the tree goes into a bonsai pot. At this time, that is none... I placed a few trees in akadama this spring before I did all the research and I can tell you that they are developing slower than other similar trees without it.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

I don’t have a really good handle on the prices right now just quoted one of the suppliers I used last spring.

I will have a better handle on the effect on bulk prices when our club shipment via Jonas arrives, compared to last year.

Akadama Is used in almost all trees at PBM where I volunteer. The rest are azaleas in Kanuma. They are all older and refined… so appropriate for them.

Recently I noticed that a change of media had a definite slowing effect to start with on my young Satsuki with kanuma.

25 of these had a complete change of media from a nursery mix to a 90/10 kanuma/pumice mix. Observed side by side with satsuki with media not changed, their growth stalled. After 2.5 months things picked up. Now the Satsuki were just about on par with the Satsuki in nursery mix.

A big variable though… the fertilizer regime was markedly different with kanuma. More can be used compared to a-peat based nursery mix.

But that should of been expected?

Best
DSD sends
I

 

[Maiden69]

Yeah... outside of nursery mix we need to fertilize more often, especially in development. The same applies to colanders. I don't have any "real" satzuki right now, just a Nuccio Wild Cherry and some Encore which I think are going to end up in a big root pouch as a garden brush... maybe I'll pull it out in a few years to pot it in a bonsai pot, but as much as I may like the flowers I'm not a fan of the continuous flowering thing. The Nuccio is going into kanuma/pumice in spring.