New bonsai addict

[erb.75]

Slow down here, folks!

Bonsai901 has posted pictures of a bunch of "sticks in pots", and ya'll are recommending him to go see Bjorn? Bjorn can't do anything with this material!

I'm the only one on this forum to have the nerve to say the truth, it appears! The material shown here is pretty much a waste of time, and money. Oh, I understand the concept of "treasure hunting" at the big box stores, and collecting yardadori, to catch hidden gems. But those aren't it. You need a bit of experience working with decent starter stock to understand what makes good bonsai material.

And, Bonsai901 has Brussels in his back yard! True, Brussels has some expensive stuff, but the vast majority is inexpensive starter material that costs about the same as anything at the big box landscape center.

I'm sorry if I come across as elitist, arrogant, and snobbish (as I'm often called), but really, why spend money on crap from places that don't care about bonsai? Spend it with companies and businesses that are promoting bonsai!

I meant that if he goes to see Bjorn (not necessarily to work on bonsai901's trees), he will see what really great bonsai looks like. I think you have to see good bonsai to want good bonsai

 

[M. Frary]

I think he is going to be in nashville, but I don't know exactly when

Cutting a new record at Sun records probably.

 

[Adair M]

I meant that if he goes to see Bjorn (not necessarily to work on bonsai901's trees), he will see what really great bonsai looks like. I think you have to see good bonsai to want good bonsai

That's true. Bjorn's home is in Knoxville. I've been there, and he does have (or I should say, his Dad has) nice trees. I think Bjorn plans to set up shop in Knoxville, eventually.

But, really, trees of that caliber are so far out of reach to most newbies, it's discouraging.

That's why I think Brussels is better. Brussels has THOUSANDS of bonsai! Thousands! From starter to OMG! Finished trees.

 

[Bonsai901]

Slow down here, folks!

Bonsai901 has posted pictures of a bunch of "sticks in pots", and ya'll are recommending him to go see Bjorn? Bjorn can't do anything with this material!

I'm the only one on this forum to have the nerve to say the truth, it appears! The material shown here is pretty much a waste of time, and money. Oh, I understand the concept of "treasure hunting" at the big box stores, and collecting yardadori, to catch hidden gems. But those aren't it. You need a bit of experience working with decent starter stock to understand what makes good bonsai material.

And, Bonsai901 has Brussels in his back yard! True, Brussels has some expensive stuff, but the vast majority is inexpensive starter material that costs about the same as anything at the big box landscape center.

I'm sorry if I come across as elitist, arrogant, and snobbish (as I'm often called), but really, why spend money on crap from places that don't care about bonsai? Spend it with companies and businesses that are promoting bonsai!

I don't think anyone was making the suggestion that I take my plants to Bjorn.

I think I was clear in the beginning that I am very new to this and how meager my plants are, as a matter of fact I even named one "Stick".
I would much rather learn on a $15 Walmart bonsai than an identical $40 Brussels (yes identical, I have checked), besides I didn't even know about Brussels until after I had purchased what I have.

Let me clarify my initial post, I bought my first plant (Stick) from Walmart because I thought it looked cool and I was looking for some indoor plants. I read a bit on what bonsai was actually about, then bought a few more as impulse or pity buys before I learned enough to know that they weren't exactly good material.
I was raised to make the best of what I have, I bought some crappy plants, but they are mine and I will do all I can to learn from them and try to keep them happy and healthy for as long as I can, it would only be a bonus to me if they defy all odds and become decent bonsai.

I assume that you have much more experience than my measly two months, and I am certain that I could learn a lot from someone like you. With all due respect, the only thing I learned from your post is that you strongly dislike my first few plants. I would hope someone with experience would try to guide, not brow-beat, and give a newbie something positive they could take away. Your post would probably turn most people away from learning this beautiful art fearing that everyone in this hobby might be as elitist. I am not one to give up so easily.

Let me add, my only regret is not knowing about bonsai before I started; With that being said, I probably would have still made the same purchases to save some dying plants.

 

[Johnathan]

Welcome!

I started all of this in March I belive it was, so I don't really know s##t either lol... As one of the newest members here and new to bonsai and gardening period let me just add that you're in the right place!

Everyone here is knowledgeable and more importantly in my eyes PASSIONATE about this hobby. That passion causes many a disagreement but also many many more solutions.

Sifu (its okay to google it, I had to) also known as @Adair M is one only trying to help. Help comes in all form. Just as love does. In fact some would testify that tough love is one of the best forms you can get.

Remember I'm new too so, I completely agree with, and understand the philosophy of just getting your hands on something and learning rather than spending big bucks. I have done it also.

I've become a student of this hobby, and have read 1000s of post on here in my short time, some as far back as 2006... and to be completely honest, I probably still don't truly grasp understand everything I read here lol

One thing that has resonated with me that I came across was a discussion of materials for beginners. Simply the conclusion I came to was you start with crap, you just have better looking crap 10 years later.

The most expensive tree in my collection is a mugo pine that was like $32 (definitely get you a mugo pine by the way) so I'm not telling you to run out and spend big bucks.

One of the best things I ever did was find a nursery with some over sized junipers that they thought were going to die and getting them for like $5 or $15. You scratch your itch for material and you learn in the process.

In my opinion (because its what I'm doing) There's no shame in taking a season or two just to grasp fundamentals. I believe something I read said some masters teach 3 seasons/years just to master proper watering

But as suggested, you can get those fundamentals on better quality stuff for relatively the same price. Join some FB auction groups like 99 cent bonsai, find a mom-n-pop nursery that has clearance, search these forums. There are tons of post about where and how to find better quality material for cheap. Definitely go to Brussels, I know I would be there every payday lol

And as you do that. Emotionally detach from your trees (except for stick, its got a name, its gotta get loved on ) .. save $20 a month until next spring like I'm doing and we will both be ready for some top notch material by then.

Most importantly enjoy yourself, and the hobby. Once again welcome to crazy!!

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

You're in Memphis? You need to get yourself to Brussel's Bonsai in Olive Branch, now! It will change your bonsai life.
Don't buy anything else from Wal-Mart or Lowes or HD until you have visited Brussel's.

 

[Johnathan]

HMMMMMM!!!!.... I will be in New Orleans later this year though

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

HMMMMMM!!!!.... I will be in New Orleans later this year though

The OP; @Bonsai901 is in Memphis.

 

[M. Frary]

Welcome!

I started all of this in March I belive it was, so I don't really know s##t either lol... As one of the newest members here and new to bonsai and gardening period let me just add that you're in the right place!

Everyone here is knowledgeable and more importantly in my eyes PASSIONATE about this hobby. That passion causes many a disagreement but also many many more solutions.

Sifu (its okay to google it, I had to) also known as @Adair M is one only trying to help. Help comes in all form. Just as love does. In fact some would testify that tough love is one of the best forms you can get.

Remember I'm new too so, I completely agree with, and understand the philosophy of just getting your hands on something and learning rather than spending big bucks. I have done it also.

I've become a student of this hobby, and have read 1000s of post on here in my short time, some as far back as 2006... and to be completely honest, I probably still don't truly grasp understand everything I read here lol

One thing that has resonated with me that I came across was a discussion of materials for beginners. Simply the conclusion I came to was you start with crap, you just have better looking crap 10 years later.

The most expensive tree in my collection is a mugo pine that was like $32 (definitely get you a mugo pine by the way) so I'm not telling you to run out and spend big bucks.

One of the best things I ever did was find a nursery with some over sized junipers that they thought were going to die and getting them for like $5 or $15. You scratch your itch for material and you learn in the process.

In my opinion (because its what I'm doing) There's no shame in taking a season or two just to grasp fundamentals. I believe something I read said some masters teach 3 seasons/years just to master proper watering

But as suggested, you can get those fundamentals on better quality stuff for relatively the same price. Join some FB auction groups like 99 cent bonsai, find a mom-n-pop nursery that has clearance, search these forums. There are tons of post about where and how to find better quality material for cheap. Definitely go to Brussels, I know I would be there every payday lol

And as you do that. Emotionally detach from your trees (except for stick, its got a name, its gotta get loved on ) .. save $20 a month until next spring like I'm doing and we will both be ready for some top notch material by then.

Most importantly enjoy yourself, and the hobby. Once again welcome to crazy!!

Very well said.
You are learning fast Black Miyagi!

 

[Adair M]

Welcome!

I started all of this in March I belive it was, so I don't really know s##t either lol... As one of the newest members here and new to bonsai and gardening period let me just add that you're in the right place!

Everyone here is knowledgeable and more importantly in my eyes PASSIONATE about this hobby. That passion causes many a disagreement but also many many more solutions.

Sifu (its okay to google it, I had to) also known as @Adair M is one only trying to help. Help comes in all form. Just as love does. In fact some would testify that tough love is one of the best forms you can get.

Remember I'm new too so, I completely agree with, and understand the philosophy of just getting your hands on something and learning rather than spending big bucks. I have done it also.

I've become a student of this hobby, and have read 1000s of post on here in my short time, some as far back as 2006... and to be completely honest, I probably still don't truly grasp understand everything I read here lol

One thing that has resonated with me that I came across was a discussion of materials for beginners. Simply the conclusion I came to was you start with crap, you just have better looking crap 10 years later.

The most expensive tree in my collection is a mugo pine that was like $32 (definitely get you a mugo pine by the way) so I'm not telling you to run out and spend big bucks.

One of the best things I ever did was find a nursery with some over sized junipers that they thought were going to die and getting them for like $5 or $15. You scratch your itch for material and you learn in the process.

In my opinion (because its what I'm doing) There's no shame in taking a season or two just to grasp fundamentals. I believe something I read said some masters teach 3 seasons/years just to master proper watering

But as suggested, you can get those fundamentals on better quality stuff for relatively the same price. Join some FB auction groups like 99 cent bonsai, find a mom-n-pop nursery that has clearance, search these forums. There are tons of post about where and how to find better quality material for cheap. Definitely go to Brussels, I know I would be there every payday lol

And as you do that. Emotionally detach from your trees (except for stick, its got a name, its gotta get loved on ) .. save $20 a month until next spring like I'm doing and we will both be ready for some top notch material by then.

Most importantly enjoy yourself, and the hobby. Once again welcome to crazy!!

Johnathan, it's great you went into the forums to read old threads. You'll find out lots of information that way.

Yesterday, the Atlanta Bonsai Society had Kathy Shaner in as a guest artist. She did a workshop and demo. I assisted.

One thing she said was to pretty much ignore the books. They're usually out if date the moment they're published, and often they're just a rehash of previous information (or mid-information) previously published! She said the best way to learn is from someone whose bonsai you like. And continue with that teacher. Don't hop from one to another. Stick with that one to learn what they do in the different seasons, with different species, etc.

Later, once you can equal that teacher's trees, then perhaps look for another. Or not.

 

[flyinmanatee]

I don't want to sound harsh here but to me that comes across a little demeaning to those who put in the hard work to release a book. I'd like to think effort is put in to avoid rehashing and passing down erroneous information. As a beginner (and that's what were talking here) I'm taking a much broader approach. Maybe I just like a historical perspective with things. Much can be said for the guru method but not everyone is going to have someone take them under their wing so soon on their journey. Two things I've returned to repeatedly on my initial 6 months.

Learn the rules to break the rules.

And Nigel Saunders first 2 tips for beginners:
1. Don't listen to what people say- follow your instincts.
2. Listen to what people say.

 

[Adair M]

I don't want to sound harsh here but to me that comes across a little demeaning to those who put in the hard work to release a book. I'd like to think effort is put in to avoid rehashing and passing down erroneous information. As a beginner (and that's what were talking here) I'm taking a much broader approach. Maybe I just like a historical perspective with things. Much can be said for the guru method but not everyone is going to have someone take them under their wing so soon on their journey. Two things I've returned to repeatedly on my initial 6 months.

Learn the rules to break the rules.

And Nigel Saunders first 2 tips for beginners:
1. Don't listen to what people say- follow your instincts.
2. Listen to what people say.

Well, you're a beginner. I'm not. I was at one time.

I'm telling what I'm telling from the wisdom aquired by doing bonsai for 40+ years. You can choose to ignore it, but there will come a time when you'll realize that I'm right.

 

[flyinmanatee]

Just trying to advanced the discussion and share some thoughts in the new to bonsai forum. And very much to the point of not ignoring different views. I'll bow to your bonsaier-than-thou attitude for now but keep my bet on ever attaining such rigid clairity on any matter in life, much less in the Bonsai arena.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Crataegus, the Hawthorns, white flowers, red fruit, relatively disease free compared to crab apples, Malus. Hawthorns are native to the IL savanna-prairie ecosystems.

Stickers, thorns, pain nasty!

 

[Adair M]

Just trying to advanced the discussion and share some thoughts in the new to bonsai forum. And very much to the point of not ignoring different views. I'll bow to your bonsaier-than-thou attitude for now but keep my bet on ever attaining such rigid clairity on any matter in life, much less in the Bonsai arena.

Certainly reading a book or two will help you get started with a general introduction to bonsai. But, there's nothing like working with an experienced practitioner.

The way they handle the tree, use the tools, manipulate the branches... all these subtle things just cannot be conveyed via a book. Video is better, but even that is limited.

It's like trying to learn to play tennis. Yeah, there's books. And videos. And, some people just pick up a racket and try to play with no instruction at all. The most successful, however, take lessons from a pro. A pro can start you off with a solid foundation of basic skills to build upon. With practice, the fundamentals get ingrained into your muscle memory. Once that happens, a pro can help you progress to the next level.

Same with bonsai.

 

[M. Frary]

Stickers, thorns, pain nasty!

Don't be such a girl.

 

[backroadstraveler]

Johnathan, it's great you went into the forums to read old threads. You'll find out lots of information that way.

Yesterday, the Atlanta Bonsai Society had Kathy Shaner in as a guest artist. She did a workshop and demo. I assisted.

One thing she said was to pretty much ignore the books. They're usually out if date the moment they're published, and often they're just a rehash of previous information (or mid-information) previously published! She said the best way to learn is from someone whose bonsai you like. And continue with that teacher. Don't hop from one to another. Stick with that one to learn what they do in the different seasons, with different species, etc.

Later, once you can equal that teacher's trees, then perhaps look for another. Or not.

Did Steve have a good crowd at Plant City for the workshop? Were most of the participants from ABS?

 

[Adair M]

Yes.

There were 8 participants in the workshop, the max, and Curt Howard and I assisted. I think most were ABS members, some were my students. Good crowd, we got a lot done.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Stickers, thorns, pain nasty!

Real men and women don't let no stickers or thorns bother them, thornless bushes are for wimps.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

A rose without thorns or fragrance is not worth growing. Actually scentless roses are a pet peeve of mine, but that is way off topic.

Roses have been used for Bonsai, but their growth habits make it difficult to develop a trunk. The miniature roses can be used in kusamono.