New Cotoneasters need suggestions

[Carol 83]

I seem to be making alot of random purchases lately, with nothing else to do. I posted these two on another thread, but haven't received much of a response. They are obviously two different varieties. One has teeny,tiny leaves. I am really tempted to put it straight into a bonsai pot. Patience is not my biggest virtue. They are in really deep nursery pots, so I at least would like to get them in a more shallow acrylic pot. What I have read says to repot in spring, is it too late? Not really looking to do root work, info says to never bare root. They appear to be in regular nursery soil. Any advice is appreciated.

 

[NOZZLE HEAD]

Chop em low!!!!!’

 

[Hartinez]

Hey Carol! I saw your other post and I’m sorry I couldn’t reply till now! As you e seen, I’ve been enjoying Cotoneaster. My experience is somewhat limited, but what little I do have I’ll share! At this point, don’t repot. Or if you do, only up-pot slightly and maybe see if there is a better base hiding under the soil line. I’ve found with the ones I’ve worked that sometimes they flare out and sometimes in. What I would do with these is chop hard. If the roots and tree are healthy, they should take a good reduction. If they respond like the coral beauty I’m familiar with, you should get lots of budding all over, giving you the opportunity to rebuild your branches in a relatively short amount of time. The material you’ve got is not great, but IMO it all can be with time and a good vision. If they were mine I’d consider chopping at the red lines and establishing the green as your trunk line. Wire the new leader upwards to embellish that line. I can’t imagine them not budding all over. But I’d be bummed for you if they kicked the bucket! Either way, have fun and keep us updated!

Danny

 

[Shibui]

There is always going to be many ways to develop bonsai.
Many would say to allow these to grow until they have better trunks then cut back and develop a bonsai. Good advice
Others do not want to wait and are satisfied with smaller sticks as bonsai. In that case start pruning to develop a shape now. You will sacrifice growth and trunk thickness but will have a 'bonsai' far sooner to satisfy that urge.

Hartinez cuts would be a good start but may be too much for some. judging by the size of leaves those cuts would make the tree really small so that would just be initial pruning and the tree would then need to grow out again to reach size.
There may be other options above that could be used. Maybe lesser quality tree but more instant.

What do you want from these? Can you see any possible good trees? You are there and can see the tree in 3D where we are relying on fuzzy 2D photos so cannot judge depth and direction so it is much harder to make the best choices.

 

[Carol 83]

There is always going to be many ways to develop bonsai.
Many would say to allow these to grow until they have better trunks then cut back and develop a bonsai. Good advice
Others do not want to wait and are satisfied with smaller sticks as bonsai. In that case start pruning to develop a shape now. You will sacrifice growth and trunk thickness but will have a 'bonsai' far sooner to satisfy that urge.

Hartinez cuts would be a good start but may be too much for some. judging by the size of leaves those cuts would make the tree really small so that would just be initial pruning and the tree would then need to grow out again to reach size.
There may be other options above that could be used. Maybe lesser quality tree but more instant.

What do you want from these? Can you see any possible good trees? You are there and can see the tree in 3D where we are relying on fuzzy 2D photos so cannot judge depth and direction so it is much harder to make the best choices.

Thank you for your thoughtful comments, I have much to think about before I do anything. The pictures are not all that great, I agree. The one with the tiny leaves actually has a decent size trunk for the size of the tree, which I wish to keep small. The nursery container and the bad photography may be a bit misleading regarding size. The larger leaf one I would be willing to do something more drastic, it's not much to look at.

 

[Carol 83]

Hey Carol! I saw your other post and I’m sorry I couldn’t reply till now! As you e seen, I’ve been enjoying Cotoneaster. My experience is somewhat limited, but what little I do have I’ll share! At this point, don’t repot. Or if you do, only up-pot slightly and maybe see if there is a better base hiding under the soil line. I’ve found with the ones I’ve worked that sometimes they flare out and sometimes in. What I would do with these is chop hard. If the roots and tree are healthy, they should take a good reduction. If they respond like the coral beauty I’m familiar with, you should get lots of budding all over, giving you the opportunity to rebuild your branches in a relatively short amount of time. The material you’ve got is not great, but IMO it all can be with time and a good vision. If they were mine I’d consider chopping at the red lines and establishing the green as your trunk line. Wire the new leader upwards to embellish that line. I can’t imagine them not budding all over. But I’d be bummed for you if they kicked the bucket! Either way, have fun and keep us updated!

Danny
View attachment 305974
View attachment 305975

Thank you for the options and advice. I'm liking your thoughts for the larger leaf one, and will probably go that route. The smaller leaf one I kind of like and not sure I want to go that drastic, I appreciate you taking the time, certainly gives me something to think about.

 

[Forsoothe!]

You can see that the normal habit of growth is straight as an arrow, very angular. It's hard to bend them much once they get to about the diameter of the present slingshot, so you need to decide whether or not you are going to keep as a design feature the current "Y". If so, you need to picture in your mind's eye the possible architecture that will or can flow from the present basic "Y" without being incongruous. If you wire the secondary branches from this point on in more or less horizontal layers, that is one look that would have the straightness, or angularity of the basic "Y" and all parts would be in-concert.

The current look would be a broom.

Cotoneaster stems when they are skinnier can be almost any bend, swoop, or kink you want, but if you don't expressly want the above angular looks, you need to chop really low on the "Y" so that the only straight piece left is the first inch or so sticking out of the ground.

 

[Shibui]

Before even starting to plan a style for either tree you should find the nebari. Sometimes roots are buried halfway down the pot so the neat little tree you styled is suddenly a lollipop on a long stick. Don't stop at the first thin roots. You really want to go down until you find a good ring of stronger roots for the nebari.
If you do go broom with that one the vertical trunk is appropriate but for informal upright trunk leaving the ground at an angle is far better so think about tilting the tree either left or right for a better start to the trunk.

 

[Shibui]

Just for inspiration here are a couple of my small ones




I believe they are the same species as your small leaf tree but note how thick the lower trunk is on the informal upright style tree.

 

[Carol 83]

Just for inspiration here are a couple of my small ones
View attachment 306171

View attachment 306172

I believe they are the same species as your small leaf tree but note how thick the lower trunk is on the informal upright style tree.

Very nice. Your "small" ones make me wish I would have kept my pathetic little guys to myself. Saving grace, they were cheap.

 

[Shibui]

Cotoneaster grows quite quick if you allow it. You can convert now to a run of the mill 'bonsai' or you can suppress that impatience and aim for a far better tree in 2 or 3 years.
Cuttings root really easy too so if you decide to shape these now just put in a few cuttings then allow those to grow mad to get some trunk size. In a couple of years you could have some great small trees.

Where these trees go now is entirely up to you.

 

[Carol 83]

Cotoneaster grows quite quick if you allow it. You can convert now to a run of the mill 'bonsai' or you can suppress that impatience and aim for a far better tree in 2 or 3 years.
Cuttings root really easy too so if you decide to shape these now just put in a few cuttings then allow those to grow mad to get some trunk size. In a couple of years you could have some great small trees.

Where these trees go now is entirely up to you.

Thanks, you've been very helpful.