New Front for this Shimpaku

grouper52

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This Shimp has been with me for about four years. This year I am trying to start moving the foliage away from highly stylized foliage pads, towards a more natural style. But right now at the end of this season it just looks unkempt. But I am playing with this as a new front, which may require a much different branch architecture, so mostly I'm looking at the angle for now, rather than the foliage per se. That stove pipe main trunk up near the top center will need to be seriously corrected . . . .

Thoughts are welcome. (except thoughts about shortening the jins. :D )
 

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irene_b

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Can you post pics of all around the tree...I am wanting to see branch structure.
Irene
 

grouper52

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Rick, you probably recall this tree from years ago - this front-on view may refresh your memory. This was taken this spring. I seem to have lost the picture of it as a stubby little shrub from when I first got it.

Irene. I don't have views from other angles, but will try to take some over the weekend.
 

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Ang3lfir3

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I like the new front better for sure... the image is more compact and the jinns are more dynamic from this angle. I actually don't mind the foliage either tho thinning (but you knew that already) would combat the unkeptness easily enough.
 

jonathan

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New front definatly looks a lot better compared to the old one as for the more natural style I think it's already good on it's way getting there some slight thinning (probaly wouldn't make seperate foliage pads but go for a more general appearance like it more or less is now) other than that some apex work kinda missing a branch on top (front branch).

anyways seems like it's well on it's way to becoming a very nice tree keep it up ;)

greets jona.
 

Rick Moquin

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Yes Will I remember it well (flames pot and all). I needed to see that view so we have somthing to compare it to, like a before and after.

I also like the new proposed front. The stove pipe isn't as obvious in the before pic. What's the size of that puppy? and can that ramrod be put in traction? If not then perhaps bringing some foliage forward to mask it.

I love the movement and dynamism of the jins in the proposed front. The foliage will of course need to be repositioned somewhat to portrait the new front. I know with time the left stubby jin will be addressed to look more natural as the one on the right, so I won't address it here.
 

mcpesq817

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Very nice tree - really love your work.

I like the new front too. Will you work that jin on the left to address the part coming straight at the viewer?
 

grouper52

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Yes Will I remember it well (flames pot and all). I needed to see that view so we have somthing to compare it to, like a before and after.

I also like the new proposed front. The stove pipe isn't as obvious in the before pic. What's the size of that puppy? and can that ramrod be put in traction? If not then perhaps bringing some foliage forward to mask it.

I love the movement and dynamism of the jins in the proposed front. The foliage will of course need to be repositioned somewhat to portrait the new front. I know with time the left stubby jin will be addressed to look more natural as the one on the right, so I won't address it here.

Thanks, Rick. It stands about a foot tall.

The left stubby jin has been bugging me for a while now, and will probably be addressed this winter when I'm gonna have the power tools out full time. :D Could do it all with jin pliers, but sometimes I like to at least decrease the bulk a bit first with the die grinder &/or Dremmel.

The stove pipe should respond well to a bit of hollowing of the heartwood through a small drill hole(s) off to one side - should be easy to manipulate after that. It's a bit too stiff and short to get in there with adequate branch benders, etc. I haven't done that technique on a shimpaku before, but the bend(s) will not need to be too radical, so it should not present too much of a problem. But, even if that whole top dies it would just make the tree look even more "ancient" . . . hmmm . . . . hmmmmmmm . . . .. let me study on that one for a while! :D:D:eek:
 

Tachigi

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Hey G52, Not seeing the old front in a recent picture its hard to know whether this is an improvement. You have obviously have taken some volume out of the deadwood since the the last picture shown above.

To be honest, I'm not thrilled about the deadwood superimposed over the trunk. Like the tree with out a doubt..but would like to persuade you into doing a photo of the old front.
 

Tachigi

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... post #4 Tom.

LOL...Ummmmmmmmm... Well age is catching up with me!


I thought that was a pic from a while ago....then I would say, that as is, any other front would be preferable. However saying that, I think if you debulk that deadwood you may find that a slimer leaner jin may enhance that front. Making that side of the tree lighter and not so visually out of balance, giving you a good front.

Rantings of a senile ole man.:D
 

grouper52

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LOL...Ummmmmmmmm... Well age is catching up with me!


I thought that was a pic from a while ago....then I would say, that as is, any other front would be preferable. However saying that, I think if you debulk that deadwood you may find that a slimer leaner jin may enhance that front. Making that side of the tree lighter and not so visually out of balance, giving you a good front.

Rantings of a senile ole man.:D

Tom, thanks. Please allow me, a senile quasi-geezer, to add my own hapless rantings. :)

I have always loved the huge, ancient junipers such as are found over near Bend, Oregon, and this tree is an attempt to emulate one of those. They DO have, as do many desert conifers, rather long and thick jins compared to the current fashion, and the prominent jin on this tree has always struck me as it's main feature in that regard. I understand the need for balance in the tree, but I'm a bit hesitant to refine away the reason for working on it in the first place, which is the prominent, perhaps even over-the-top jin that reminds me of those ancient denizens of the desert. Otherwise it's just kind of another shimpaku to me. Having said that, however, I HAVE thinned it a bit over time, actually, but not much, and yet I may do a bit more as the mood strikes me - perhaps when my senility takes me to the next level. :)
 

Attila Soos

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This is a great looking tree, I like the new front much better. The jin is not too big for my taste, I would leave it as it is.

For the straight portion, I would use a small branch bender (the one with two hooks and a screw in the middle), and bend it so that the small branch to the right becomes the apex, and the current apex leans 45 degrees to the left. To do that, you would place the bender on the left side of the straight portion and start pushing the screw against the wood a few inches below the future apex, fom the left side.
The branch would easily bend under the force of the screw. You would probably need the smallest size.
 

Tachigi

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I have always loved the huge, ancient junipers such as are found over near Bend, Oregon, and this tree is an attempt to emulate one of those. They DO have, as do many desert conifers, rather long and thick jins compared to the current fashion, and the prominent jin on this tree has always struck me as it's main feature in that regard. I understand the need for balance in the tree, but I'm a bit hesitant to refine away the reason for working on it in the first place, which is the prominent, perhaps even over-the-top jin that reminds me of those ancient denizens of the desert. Otherwise it's just kind of another shimpaku to me. Having said that, however, I HAVE thinned it a bit over time, actually, but not much, and yet I may do a bit more as the mood strikes me - perhaps when my senility takes me to the next level. :)

Fair enough....your reasoning makes sense...besides your the primary viewer and that is what counts...your enjoyment.
 

Tachigi

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For the straight portion, I would use a small branch bender (the one with two hooks and a screw in the middle), and bend it so that the small branch to the right becomes the apex, and the current apex leans 45 degrees to the left. To do that, you would place the bender on the left side of the straight portion and start pushing the screw against the wood a few inches below the future apex, fom the left side.
The branch would easily bend under the force of the screw. You would probably need the smallest size.

Question here.....are you guys not nervous as hell about killing cambium when you use these style of benders. I remember years ago pulling one out and Colin about took my head off for using an instrument of destruction.:eek:
 

Attila Soos

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Question here.....are you guys not nervous as hell about killing cambium when you use these style of benders. I remember years ago pulling one out and Colin about took my head off for using an instrument of destruction.:eek:

You just need to use it the right way. I used it this year on one of my very thick Montezuma cypress, it works wonders. I couldn't have done it with wiring the trunk.

But you just need to put a thick rubber pad under the pressure area, that's all.
 

Ang3lfir3

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Question here.....are you guys not nervous as hell about killing cambium when you use these style of benders. I remember years ago pulling one out and Colin about took my head off for using an instrument of destruction.:eek:

When we use them on large branches in the garden they are usually protected by the hay bailing cord (raffia is a pain in the @ss and the orange cord is easy to see) and wire. The jacks are usually placed on the outside of all this and used to hold sharp bends in place. I don't know about others but for the most part we just used them as holding tools.
 

greerhw

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Question here.....are you guys not nervous as hell about killing cambium when you use these style of benders. I remember years ago pulling one out and Colin about took my head off for using an instrument of destruction.:eek:

You should see Andy Smith's video where he twists and twist Ponderose branchs until the cambium is seperated from the hard wood in order to bend large branches. After we watched the video, I emailed him and ask how mant of the 6 trees survived and he said 5 were doing fine.

keep it green,
Harry
 

Tachigi

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Harry twisiting is one thing ... been there done that. What was drilled into my head is that when you put a 3 point jack on living tissue the pressure of the actual screw crushes the cambium. I'm not saying this is a bad technique but am wondering how people might get around that draw back. Obviously this tool works...they sell.
 

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