New Growth falling off.

[junmilo]

Hi,

My ume's new leaves are falling off (gently touching them or just falls off). Is this a sign of lack nutrients? Weak tree? I have a grow light on top of them.

See attached.

Thanks

 

[rockm]

Means you should get this tree outside where it belongs. Ume will not survive long inside as you are seeing. Not enough light, probably too much water in very bad soil. Plant is deciding it can't support the leaves it's putting out.

 

[junmilo]

Means you should get this tree outside where it belongs. Ume will not survive long inside as you are seeing. Not enough light, probably too much water in very bad soil. Plant is deciding it can't support the leaves it's putting out.

It has been very windy outside for the past week and freezing rain as well. The soil is a mix of peatmoss and crush rocks.

 

[rockm]

It has been very windy outside for the past week and freezing rain as well. The soil is a mix of peatmoss and crush rocks.

Has it been below freezing outside? If the temp hasn't been below 39 or so, the tree should be outside.

You know your weather better than me, but from this:
https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/canada/toronto/historic

your weather doesn't appear to be too cold for the tree to be outside...

Peat moss is an extremely poor soil component. It hold far far too much water for bonsai use. Crushed rocks will do no good in helping muck drain.

Do not confuse peat moss with sphagnum moss. The two are related but are not the same. Peat moss is decomposed sphagnum moss that has been compacted and is mined. It forms the bottom of old sphagnum bogs--it is WHY they are bogs--swamps. The material prevents drainage...

 

[Dav4]

Hi,

My ume's new leaves are falling off (gently touching them or just falls off). Is this a sign of lack nutrients? Weak tree? I have a grow light on top of them.

See attached.

Thanks

View attachment 192024
View attachment 192023
View attachment 192022

Means you should get this tree outside where it belongs. Ume will not survive long inside as you are seeing. Not enough light, probably too much water in very bad soil. Plant is deciding it can't support the leaves it's putting out.

Yup, full sun for Ume down in N. GA and outside year round. Get it outside asap or it's done.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Full sun here too. It should be outside and in better soil. Mine dried out once, and the leaves withered from tips toward petioles. I suspect that your soil is causing the root tips to die, which has the same effect as drying out, since bad root tips can’t supply moisture to the leaves. You’re likely seeing the problems with trying to keep something alive that won’t thrive in your zone.

 

[junmilo]

Full sun here too. It should be outside and in better soil. Mine dried out once, and the leaves withered from tips toward petioles. I suspect that your soil is causing the root tips to die, which has the same effect as drying out, since bad root tips can’t supply moisture to the leaves. You’re likely seeing the problems with trying to keep something alive that won’t thrive in your zone.

It's kind of late to repot now no? I'll leave it outside when I get home.

 

[rockm]

It's kind of late to repot now no? I'll leave it outside when I get home.

It is late to repot, however, you have to decide if you need an emergency repot to get it out of that soil.

That soil is a real problem. If you decide to repot, do it gently, don't sever any roots, gently wash the muck from the roots and gently put it back into the container (which you have cleaned out) and backfill with regular bonsai soil.

The key is to make sure you don't disturb the remaining roots too much.

If you decide not to repot, you will have to monitor the water VERY closely. Peat moss is hard to water, since if you let it dry too much, it becomes extremely difficult to re-wet. It can repel water once it dries out.

This tree cannot be kept inside. If you are outside its hardiness zones, find a place where it will remain cold-ish--preferably below 37 or so from December to March or so...

 

[junmilo]

It is late to repot, however, you have to decide if you need an emergency repot to get it out of that soil.

That soil is a real problem. If you decide to repot, do it gently, don't sever any roots, gently wash the muck from the roots and gently put it back into the container (which you have cleaned out) and backfill with regular bonsai soil.

The key is to make sure you don't disturb the remaining roots too much.

If you decide not to repot, you will have to monitor the water VERY closely. Peat moss is hard to water, since if you let it dry too much, it becomes extremely difficult to re-wet. It can repel water once it dries out.

This tree cannot be kept inside. If you are outside its hardiness zones, find a place where it will remain cold-ish--preferably below 37 or so from December to March or so...

I see. Thank you. What soil mix would recommend? akadama/peat/crushed rocks? Pure akadama?

 

[rockm]

I see. Thank you. What soil mix would recommend? akadama/peat/crushed rocks? Pure akadama?

Peat moss is a very VERY bad soil ingredient. DON'T use it. Plain old regular bonsai soil is best. Akadama is OK if you want to got to the expense.

I've bought soil from Meco Bonsai, which is no Superflybonsai. They make a good basic soil mix. I would NOT try to make your own soil for this tree. You should get some decent prepared bonsai soil to see what it looks like. At this point, you're mixing questionable ingredients and getting questionable results.

https://www.superflybonsai.com/coll...pumice-lava-and-akadama?variant=3709333274654

 

[junmilo]

Peat moss is a very VERY bad soil ingredient. DON'T use it. Plain old regular bonsai soil is best. Akadama is OK if you want to got to the expense.

I've bought soil from Meco Bonsai, which is no Superflybonsai. They make a good basic soil mix. I would NOT try to make your own soil for this tree. You should get some decent prepared bonsai soil to see what it looks like. At this point, you're mixing questionable ingredients and getting questionable results.

https://www.superflybonsai.com/coll...pumice-lava-and-akadama?variant=3709333274654

I don't mind using pure akadama. Just don't want to kill the tree,

 

[rockm]

Prepared quality bonsai soil is probably better. Akadama isn't really all that terrific when used straight, especially that far north. It can turn to mush over a winter while the tree is in cold storage.

In previous post should have said that Meco is NOW superfly. Not the only place on the web for soil, but I've bought from them. It's decent stuff and not all that expensive for your purposes.

 

[GrimLore]

Everyone gave great advice. Myself if it is in high organics along with lack of FULL Sun minimum 6 hours a day... I use Full Organic on all Pitted Fruits here but I must tell you that they grow roots at a very impressive rate. Combined with high Organics the Substrate may appear to drain ok but after a year is VERY compacted - I must at least lift he trees from the pot and brush/loosen the outer roots. When I put the trees back in the pots I re-use the organics but add a substantial amount of Perlite when backfilling.

As was mentioned in various ways the root tips are staying wet, not being able to get air... That will result in root rot in extreme cases but that basic condition will cause leaf drop.

Just my 2 pennies but I have had not only an Orchard at the old place but have been also growing potted for years...

Grimmy

 

[AlainK]

As was mentioned in various ways the root tips are staying wet, not being able to get air... That will result in root rot in extreme cases but that basic condition will cause leaf drop.

Exactly.
You've got the right answer to your question.

 

[junmilo]

Peat moss is a very VERY bad soil ingredient. DON'T use it. Plain old regular bonsai soil is best. Akadama is OK if you want to got to the expense.

I've bought soil from Meco Bonsai, which is no Superflybonsai. They make a good basic soil mix. I would NOT try to make your own soil for this tree. You should get some decent prepared bonsai soil to see what it looks like. At this point, you're mixing questionable ingredients and getting questionable results.

https://www.superflybonsai.com/coll...pumice-lava-and-akadama?variant=3709333274654

I will repot them this weekend or tomorrow. I have a lot of akadama, kanuma, crush lava rocks, peat moss, pumice...I will mix the (1/2akadama, 1/4lava rocks and 1/4punmice and a lot of mycorrhizal fungi spore in the mix)..

Will probably place them in a shaded area and expose them to probably 6 hours of daylight and will monitor them for 2-3 weeks.

 

[rockm]

I will repot them this weekend or tomorrow. I have a lot of akadama, kanuma, crush lava rocks, peat moss, pumice...I will mix the (1/2akadama, 1/4lava rocks and 1/4punmice and a lot of mycorrhizal fungi spore in the mix)..

Will probably place them in a shaded area and expose them to probably 6 hours of daylight and will monitor them for 2-3 weeks.

FWIW, the myc spores probably aren't worth the trouble. It won't stay in such a mix for long and if you're buying a prepared myc, it's about a 50 percent chance its the right kind. There are more than one. Best way to get the "right" myc in the soil is just let it develop naturally. It does over time.

 

[Dav4]

Assuming the component particles are the same diameter, equal parts of each- akadama : lava : pumice... done.

 

[junmilo]

FWIW, the myc spores probably aren't worth the trouble. It won't stay in such a mix for long and if you're buying a prepared myc, it's about a 50 percent chance its the right kind. There are more than one. Best way to get the "right" myc in the soil is just let it develop naturally. It does over time.

The myco spores are labled for evergreens.

 

[rockm]

The myco spores are labled for evergreens.

Won't do much of anything for a deciduous tree. There are endo and ecto types of myc. Some trees use either, some use both. Some don't use it at all. Best way to get the "right" kind is wait a couple of months. It will show up on its own.

 

[junmilo]

Won't do much of anything for a deciduous tree. There are endo and ecto types of myc. Some trees use either, some use both. Some don't use it at all. Best way to get the "right" kind is wait a couple of months. It will show up on its own.

I hope the three of them will survive the transplant