New hinoki cypress 'verdoni'...

Jas

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Found this at the garden center. It's going to be a big bonsai 36-42" tall. It's in burlap but was overwintered in a huge black tub. Roots are growing through the burlap into the soil. I'm letting that continue thinking it will allow better development and naturally air prune. The foliage is so dense it's difficult to even see the smaller branches at the tips. I have taken off some structural branches that were causing swelling and one major part of a branch to allow light to the more desirable piece of the branch. Waiting till late summer to style. It seems to be pure clay inside the burlap. Guessing I can't repot till spring. Liking that it is in such a large container. Will let that ride as long as I can. How long can I leave it in there? 20190702_202942_HDR.jpg15621145810971375493265684812114.jpg
 

Jas

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Thanks! Pretty stoked on it. Foliage is crazy on these. I think I will learn a lot from this tree.
 

bwaynef

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With Hinoki, work your way INTO the tree. Cut from the outside. Save all the interior growth.
 

penumbra

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With Hinoki, work your way INTO the tree. Cut from the outside. Save all the interior growth.
Point well taken. Don't expect any back-budding. I have only seen it a few times on mature Hinoki in the landscape and even then rarely.
 
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Maloghurst

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The sooner you get it into good soil the better. That said I would wait until next spring and repot with as little actual root pruning as possible. But trying to get all the clay out. Do not prune any foliage when you do this. Let it recover for a year then work on styling.
I did this last year with success and I read this method on bonsai tonight.
It sucks to put a lot of effort into a tree and then lose it from the first repot. Been there. Better to do it first.
Also hinoki get tied in that burlap and it acts as a tourniquet so you will probably have a nice surprise under the soil like another 4- 6 inches of bulging out trunk.
 
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choppychoppy

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Waiting till late summer to style. It seems to be pure clay inside the burlap. Guessing I can't repot till spring. Liking that it is in such a large container. Will let that ride as long as I can. How long can I leave it in there?
You should not touch the foliage this year at all. You should do the repot in the spring removing as much of the old soil as possible. Then style next fall when summer is fully gone. Don't rush this tree or it's a goner. Trust me I work these too.
 
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Cofga

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I suggest you go here (http://bonsaiwonders-art.blogspot.com/) and read the articles on Taming the hinoki cypress. Probably the best info on the internet about them. The absolute best resource is International Bonsai 1995 no. 3 “The culture and styling of Hinoki cypress bonsai”. This is an article by a Japanese bonsai master and is worth the effort to dig up a copy. Due to copyright issues I cannot send you a photocopy. Check with your local bonsai club. There is another article in the same issue so it is a 2 for 1 deal.
 
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Jas

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So the one thing I was thinking about doing this year was putting some structural wire on the bigger branches to open up interior parts and allow sun to get in there. There are parts where the big branch is going to shade out interior pieces and I don't want to lose them. However, I also gather I shouldn't be cutting the big branches now either. Seems like a catch 22. Do I wait a year to wire and lose those interior pieces or add wire now to save them? The tree has not been repotted or disturbed this year. Leaning toward opening up the interior but I def don't want to jeopardize the tree. Can the tree not handle structural wire this year if it hasn't been repotted?
 

Jas

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I suggest you go here (http://bonsaiwonders-art.blogspot.com/) and read the articles on Taming the hinoki cypress. Probably the best info on the internet about them. The absolute best resource is International Bonsai 1995 no. 3 “The culture and styling of Hinoki cypress bonsai”. This is an article by a Japanese bonsai master and is worth the effort to dig up a copy. Due to copyright issues I cannot send you a photocopy. Check with your local bonsai club. There is another article in the same issue so it is a 2 for 1 deal.
Awesome thanks! I will hunt that down bc looking at this foliage and thinking about how to wire it makes my head spin. Lol
 

Jas

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The sooner you get it into good soil the better. That said I would wait until next spring and repot with as little actual root pruning as possible. But trying to get all the clay out. Do not prune any foliage when you do this. Let it recover for a year then work on styling.
I did this last year with success and I read this method on bonsai tonight.
It sucks to put a lot of effort into a tree and then lose it from the first repot. Been there. Better to do it first.
Also hinoki get tied in that burlap and it acts as a tourniquet so you will probably have a nice surprise under the soil like another 4- 6 inches of bulging out trunk.
Yes that's exactly what I found. However, if I put the soil line halfway up the bulge it looks like nice flare. Not ideal, not going to have an expansive root spread.... but that's not the aspect of the tree I'm drawn to. Its that trunk line. I am thinking about a ground layer but I actually like the flare enough not to put it through that operation. For now at least. :)
 

Jas

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I wouldn’t do any wiring until the fall, maybr September. If you want to see some major structural wiring take a look at this video. It is amaznig the bends he outs into the branches in this hinoki
Amazing. The day I'm taking a hatchet to a tree like that I'll know I've arrived lol
I will see wait until Sept to do the wiring. There are tons of tiny branches in there I can tell are weakening. Just in cleaning it I opened up some but there's a lot more under there. Thanks for the advice and the vid it was illuminating and inspiring.
 

Vance Wood

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You have to be careful in removing the small branches on the inside. Hinokis do not back bud well and that little stuff you remove now may be something you might need later.
 

Jas

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You have to be careful in removing the small branches on the inside. Hinokis do not back bud well and that little stuff you remove now may be something you might need later.
You are totally right. I'm not planning to remove the small stuff I'm trying to expose them to sunlight so they won't die back. I was wanting to wire some of the bigger pieces out so they won't shade out the little ones. Im hoping they'll still be there next year for the repot and styling.
 

Cofga

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You are totally right. I'm not planning to remove the small stuff I'm trying to expose them to sunlight so they won't die back. I was wanting to wire some of the bigger pieces out so they won't shade out the little ones. Im hoping they'll still be there next year for the repot and styling.
Be very careful if you decide to do anything right now. Over manipulating them can lead to branch dieback. I just lost a branch on a larch that way. Wiring is the equivalent of breaking a bone, putting a cast on it, and letting it regrow the way you want it to. It is not a benign procedure. It will rob the tree of energy at a time when it is aleady being stressed by mid-summer heat.
 
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Vance Wood

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I wouldn’t do any wiring until the fall, maybr September. If you want to see some major structural wiring take a look at this video. It is amaznig the bends he outs into the branches in this hinoki
I always try to assess the value of particular posts according to evidence furnished. I guess my question is how many Hinokis do you personally have and are currently working on? I am not trying to be condescending but with this particular tree I believe claims or advise should be backed up with the evidence afore mentioned advise is from experience not just reading a book.
 

Cofga

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I always try to assess the value of particular posts according to evidence furnished. I guess my question is how many Hinokis do you personally have and are currently working on? I am not trying to be condescending but with this particular tree I believe claims or advise should be backed up with the evidence afore mentioned advise is from experience not just reading a book.
I have two in pots and several in the ground. None of mine are as beautiful as your dancing lady but they are on the road to refinement. I also have one C. thyoides that I am developing the branch structure on and trying to see if it respinds like the Hinokis. For now I am beginning to think it will look best as an Atlantic White Cedar and not a Hinoki “type”.
 

Jas

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Be very careful if you decide to do anything right now. Over manipulating them can lead to branch dieback. I just lost a branch on a larch that way. Wiring is the equivalent of breaking a bone, putting a cast on it, and letting it regrow the way you want it to. It is not a benign procedure. It will rob the tree of energy at a time when it is aleady being stressed by mid-summer heat.
Planning to wait until the fall when it is moving more to the vascular phase. Thinking it will mitigate the trauma as it is already using resources for vascular production at that time of year. That's what i have been able to learn from all of this so far.
 

Vance Wood

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Planning to wait until the fall when it is moving more to the vascular phase. Thinking it will mitigate the trauma as it is already using resources for vascular production at that time of year. That's what i have been able to learn from all of this so far.
Not meaning to be a turd but it sounds like you are making suggestions from educated guesses and not experience?
 

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