New Pine Need Help

[Ris]

Hello all,

I bought this pine over the weekend, but don't know what type it is?(Black Pine)?
Any help would be great, I just like the bark and movement, also would like to thread graft branches.



Rishi.

 

[Vance Wood]

Looks more like Scots Pine due to the reddish tone to the under bark near the base of the tree. JBP's are not the only Pines that produce good bark, and this bark looks like Scots. However it looks like the tree needs a bit of TLC before it is strong and vigorous enough to be worked on. There is no doubt that there are a lot of possibilities but the best ones demand drastic cut backs and or chops which means the tree needs to be able to tolerate these procedures.

 

[TheSteve]

I agree with Vance about it possibly being a scot's pine. The bluish look to the new needles supports it too

 

[Ris]

Looks more like Scots Pine due to the reddish tone to the under bark near the base of the tree. JBP's are not the only Pines that produce good bark, and this bark looks like Scots. However it looks like the tree needs a bit of TLC before it is strong and vigorous enough to be worked on. There is no doubt that there are a lot of possibilities but the best ones demand drastic cut backs and or chops which means the tree needs to be able to tolerate these procedures.

You won't believe but I really wanted a scots as I have a Mugo pine.
Thanks for your help and wisdom.

Rishi.

 

[Ris]

I agree with Vance about it possibly being a scot's pine. The bluish look to the new needles supports it too

Good call Steve, I know it needs repoting badly as the soil looks like sand and very compact.
It will be repoted and see the growthnext spring.

Thanks Guys,

Rishi.

 

[Ris]

Update to my pine. I know Vance said this looked like a Scot pine, last meeting a guy brought a pine with foliage just the same as this but was reffered to as log poll pine I think?
Anyway here is a update on how it looks.

Rishi.

 

[Nybonsai12]

Lodge pole pine? Looking much better in the recent pics. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Ris]

Lodge pole pine? Looking much better in the recent pics. Thanks for sharing.

lol yeah that's the right name thanks hahaha. Lodge pole pine.

 

[Adair M]

Whatever kind of pine it is, it needs some more soil in the pot. It looks like you have some fine hair roots right at the base of the tree, which is a good thing, but they're being exposed. They will dry up and die if left uncovered. You want to encourage the little roots, and weaken the strong big roots to get an even nebari.

 

[Ris]

Whatever kind of pine it is, it needs some more soil in the pot. It looks like you have some fine hair roots right at the base of the tree, which is a good thing, but they're being exposed. They will dry up and die if left uncovered. You want to encourage the little roots, and weaken the strong big roots to get an even nebari.

I keep telling myself to add the soil but get side tracked every time, I just placed some a few mins ago. Thanks for reminding me

 

[Smoke]

I will be interested to find out how those thread grafts work?

 

[Adair M]

Al, I think he meant "approach graft". He has a lot of long thin branches which are ideal for pulling around and approach grafting back onto the trunk.

 

[Ris]

Al, I think he meant "approach graft". He has a lot of long thin branches which are ideal for pulling around and approach grafting back onto the trunk.

Your correct Adir M, that was my original plan but I have lots of new growth poping so no grafting. I didn't think this would back bud (thinking it was BP) when I bought it that's why it was concidered then. Soil has been topped of now but may do some root work next spring because it was only cut 1/3 root ball (no raking either) that's why it sits this high in the large training pot.
The wires had made cuts into the branches but lucky enough they came of piece by piece.

 

[Jaberwky17]

Curious about the wiring impressions

Update to my pine. I know Vance said this looked like a Scot pine, last meeting a guy brought a pine with foliage just the same as this but was reffered to as log poll pine I think?
Anyway here is a update on how it looks.

Rishi.

What's up with the wiring marks on the branches? Is that just stain/discoloration or are they actually indented? Does that go away?

 

[jkd2572]

From the first pics to the last picks. Looks like you really did a good job of improving its health.

 

[Eric Group]

What's up with the wiring marks on the branches? Is that just stain/discoloration or are they actually indented? Does that go away?

I was looking at the same thing, it looks like someone left wire on those branches WAY too long...

If that is as deep as it looks, no it probably will not go away!

 

[Vance Wood]

I was looking at the same thing, it looks like someone left wire on those branches WAY too long...

If that is as deep as it looks, no it probably will not go away!

If they are wire scars they will go away in a few years. It does not take too long for wire to cut into a branch if you put the wire on too early in the spring. So the term WAY too long is only correct if the wire starts to cut. But that event does not mean that someone was negligent, it means they didn't notice soon enough. That could be as little as a couple of months in the right conditions. I have seen it happen in as little as two weeks.

 

[Eric Group]

If they are wire scars they will go away in a few years. It does not take too long for wire to cut into a branch if you put the wire on too early in the spring. So the term WAY too long is only correct if the wire starts to cut. But that event does not mean that someone was negligent, it means they didn't notice soon enough. That could be as little as a couple of months in the right conditions. I have seen it happen in as little as two weeks.

I am not trying to attack the guy or imply he was negligent, just saying those look like some pretty deep wire cuts... Hard to tell from the pics how deep they really are..

Yeah, if the tree is growing fast, I have seen wire bite in pretty quick too... But not on my pines. I usually use raffia before doing any major wiring with my JBP, so that could be why I don't tend to get big wire scars. I've seen it happen to Maples (which I rarely wire during the grown season... Such delicate bark), Azaleas, even my Crepe Myrtles in the span of a few weeks when wire is left on during the Spring... Of course I am not at all familiar with Lodgepole Pines... Perhaps they are fast growers?

I know the scars will heal over and close eventually, but don't you think you'd probably still be able to see some deformed looking spiraled bulges running the length of those branches? That is what I meant... Again, Lodgepole are not the pines I normally work on, I will defer to you here, just seems like it would take forever for those scars to really go away!

 

[Ris]

If they are wire scars they will go away in a few years. It does not take too long for wire to cut into a branch if you put the wire on too early in the spring. So the term WAY too long is only correct if the wire starts to cut. But that event does not mean that someone was negligent, it means they didn't notice soon enough. That could be as little as a couple of months in the right conditions. I have seen it happen in as little as two weeks.

Hi Vance,
Your 100% right this happened so quick I didn't catch how deep it had gone, between watering(at night) was my only chance to look at the tree because of working hrs...
I have completely removed the wires after adding the soil and will update again in next couple months. It's been about a week now and the cuts are rolling over nice.

 

[Ris]

I am not trying to attack the guy or imply he was negligent, just saying those look like some pretty deep wire cuts... Hard to tell from the pics how deep they really are..

Yeah, if the tree is growing fast, I have seen wire bite in pretty quick too... But not on my pines. I usually use raffia before doing any major wiring with my JBP, so that could be why I don't tend to get big wire scars. I've seen it happen to Maples (which I rarely wire during the grown season... Such delicate bark), Azaleas, even my Crepe Myrtles in the span of a few weeks when wire is left on during the Spring... Of course I am not at all familiar with Lodgepole Pines... Perhaps they are fast growers?

I know the scars will heal over and close eventually, but don't you think you'd probably still be able to see some deformed looking spiraled bulges running the length of those branches? That is what I meant... Again, Lodgepole are not the pines I normally work on, I will defer to you here, just seems like it would take forever for those scars to really go away!

Hello Eric,
Those wires went unseen for about 3weeks due to 15 - 16hr days at work and yes weekends also. Am not to familiar with growth on this pine and pretty much learning from it and its growth patterns, it had slowed down and after fertilizing it jumped pushing new buds and improving branching. Like I mentioned I thought this was a black pine when I bought it seeing the long needles, but now thinking its a lodge pole pine as Roy Nagatoshi said at last meeting they back bud and grow very rapidly. Neglect is not always the case my friend.

Thanks Rishi.