New Satsuki v. Zuiun Tidy Up

[SgtPilko]

Hello all! This is a new species for me so I have a lot to learn (got a book on the way, and busy reading old threads) but super happy to get this somewhat developed tree recently. "Zuiun" appears to be a new variant, almost no mention online but the label shows it has 3-4 flower variations from white to pink.

It was quite leggy and crowded so decided to thin out a bit, at the cost of some flowers next year I imagine, but held myself back especially up top after hearing of the basal dominance. Right thing to do? Should i go a bit harder to separate some pads? Worth wiring out or stick to clip and grow? Quite a bit of long straight growth still in there but I do want to see some flowers given its the first year

All advice welcome, cheers!

 

[Glaucus]

It's a sport of 'Akane', so basically the same plant as Kozan/Nikko. Yes, it was newly registered in 2018. But of course this tree is older.

I think you did a good job. In years where you want to have the tree to most bonsai-like, you will want even more definition on those foliage pads. So by creating empty space in between them and better ramification inside the pads.
But in in-between years, you want to let it grow out so it stays vigorous.

I see you pruned the lowest branch the most and the apex barely at all. That is actually good horticulture practice. Though long-term purely bonsai aesthetically, you'd want those bottom branches to be more dominant.

I feel that if a bonsai master had pruned this tree in Japan, they would have taken off all new long shoots completely. But that's a different level of skill and a different climate.
I think it is smart to keep it healthy primarily, enjoy some flowers, do a first repot when needed and see it recover. Then make some harder bonsai decisions.

If you really want to go in there and prune more, look for the nodes from which the newest green-stemmed shoots come from. Reduce them to two. And if they are long shoots, reduce the shoot to two leaves.
Two shoots two leaves is the basic mid summer pruning on vigorous azaleas. It will not be enough to create well-defined foliage pads. But it is the most basic pruning technique that gives you bigger but more ramified branches.

 

[AnutterBonsai]

very nice tree! looking forward to it flower and develop, I wish your tree great health and success!

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Nice tree, congratulations! The trunk looks awesome.

The tree has been allowed to run and you were correct to begin attend to this. This is a good beginning. Yet there are hard choices (For me) ahead as the tree appears to have been let run free with minor cut backs of major branches. Some major branches likely will still need to be removed to move the tree forward.

I would recommend you purchase Japanese Satsuki Bonsai, by Watanabe as it deals with styling big trunks into bonsai. A bit awkward translation, yet well worth 18 USD.

@Glaucus is correct. The general rule used to build trees is to prune to create bifurcations, junctions of two throughout the tree.

For azaleas that also means going back to each flower site and selecting two lateral branchlets of medium strength, removing the rest. Then cutting these two branchlets back to two leaves. (There are more variations of this technique)

….so going though each branch and removing any branchlet going up, down, alone off the trunk (unless one is building a new branch) or across from each other in an alternating manner if possible. This creates the basis of a horizontal pad. (Up/down does not include branches originating from the sides of branch that can be wired into tertiary branches)

The tree will look sparse after you are done, yet not as bad as rotational pruning!

Timing for pruning is a bit sticky for the moment. It’s an edgy time to prune, yet if not done now will have to be done next spring.…

What are your plans for wintering over?

Congratulations once again on an awesome tree!

cheers
DSD sends

PS: Since you are pruning you might try your hand at striking some cuttings. Well worth your effort and since the tree is a rare in UK cultivar, will make excellent trade bait.

 

[SgtPilko]

It's a sport of 'Akane', so basically the same plant as Kozan/Nikko. Yes, it was newly registered in 2018. But of course this tree is older.

I think you did a good job. In years where you want to have the tree to most bonsai-like, you will want even more definition on those foliage pads. So by creating empty space in between them and better ramification inside the pads.
But in in-between years, you want to let it grow out so it stays vigorous.

I see you pruned the lowest branch the most and the apex barely at all. That is actually good horticulture practice. Though long-term purely bonsai aesthetically, you'd want those bottom branches to be more dominant.

I feel that if a bonsai master had pruned this tree in Japan, they would have taken off all new long shoots completely. But that's a different level of skill and a different climate.
I think it is smart to keep it healthy primarily, enjoy some flowers, do a first repot when needed and see it recover. Then make some harder bonsai decisions.

If you really want to go in there and prune more, look for the nodes from which the newest green-stemmed shoots come from. Reduce them to two. And if they are long shoots, reduce the shoot to two leaves.
Two shoots two leaves is the basic mid summer pruning on vigorous azaleas. It will not be enough to create well-defined foliage pads. But it is the most basic pruning technique that gives you bigger but more ramified branches.

Amazing thank you. Yes I heard about the basal dominance so went easy on the top, i might select very few more runners to cut back and that's it - then hopefully enjoy the show next year before taking the hard decisions

 

[SgtPilko]

Nice tree, congratulations! The trunk looks awesome.

The tree has been allowed to run and you were correct to begin attend to this. This is a good beginning. Yet there are hard choices (For me) ahead as the tree appears to have been let run free with minor cut backs of major branches. Some major branches likely will still need to be removed to move the tree forward.

I would recommend you purchase Japanese Satsuki Bonsai, by Watanabe as it deals with styling big trunks into bonsai. A bit awkward translation, yet well worth 18 USD.

@Glaucus is correct. The general rule used to build trees is to prune to create bifurcations, junctions of two throughout the tree.

For azaleas that also means going back to each flower site and selecting two lateral branchlets of medium strength, removing the rest. Then cutting these two branchlets back to two leaves. (There are more variations of this technique)

….so going though each branch and removing any branchlet going up, down, alone off the trunk (unless one is building a new branch) or across from each other in an alternating manner if possible. This creates the basis of a horizontal pad. (Up/down does not include branches originating from the sides of branch that can be wired into tertiary branches)

The tree will look sparse after you are done, yet not as bad as rotational pruning!

Timing for pruning is a bit sticky for the moment. It’s an edgy time to prune, yet if not done now will have to be done next spring.…

What are your plans for wintering over?

Congratulations once again on an awesome tree!

cheers
DSD sends

PS: Since you are pruning you might try your hand at striking some cuttings. Well worth your effort and since the tree is a rare in UK cultivar, will make excellent trade bait.

Thanks DSD very useful! I got the only recommended Satsuki book i could find easily in the UK on the way (Satsuki Bonsai – Janine Droste) will keep an eye out for the other one too. As mentioned above I think I'll get to know the tree for a few months (and maybe repot after flowering as it is cracked) then start the rebuild next year. Seems to be lack of consensus here whether Spring or Summer repots are better.

For winter, I am down in the SE UK (currently 27c/80f and 35/95 this weekend, how it's been all summer!) and local guy said he keeps them out all year round, winters are pretty mild but they can be wet, so maybe just some caution needed and if we have a big freeze I got some cheap plastic greenhouses that perhaps would be enough.

Should I be concerned about full afternoon sun during hot spells like this? The kanuma is staying pretty cool and moist, added some sphagnum too.

Good point on the cuttings! That is a real weak point of mine, even on 'easy' stuff like maples I never seem to get them to last more than a week or two, think its a humidity, they either crisp up or rot away...

Thanks again!

 

[Glaucus]

I think that the fungus risk of a cool damp low-light greenhouse may be worse than the zone 9 winters.
If it is too rainy, some shelter that allows for free ventilation could be helpful. Like an umbrella.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

My trees are normally in afternoon dappled shade when the temperatures are above 30C

Repots are done mainly in the spring, before flowering as these give the tree the most time to grow strong…. and we have had too many Heat Dome events to be comfortable with repotting an expensive tree in late spring early summer. Last years 45+C event really put people on notice. That said, I have been known to do repots/root work up to early August, given good weather forecast... but do have multiple options to protect trees others may not have.

Janine Doste’s book is good for starters. Considering Alexander Kennedy, Floral Treasures of Japan, hails from the UK, I’m surprised you haven’t seen it…

Besides Watanabe’s book, focused on bigger trees, there is a new, comprehensive,book coming out by Rick Garcia - Satsuki Azalea Bonsai in a week or two. It will be 45USD but the shipping may be a bear for you. Considering the way good satsuki books have jacked up in price almost exponentially it also might be something to look at.

We are pretty rainy here too. If you put a tree on the ground, the major concern is to rest the tree on a bed of medium bark, sharp stones, anything draining. I cold greenhouse my younger azaleas, but only resort to green housing my larger tree when the temperatures get about -3C. For plastic greenhouses, these are mostly treated as cold frames, keeping the trees sheltered from the elements. So as @Glaucus mentions, keeping a flap open unless it’s freezing is key.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[AnutterBonsai]

learned from my hard lesson, definitely on the repotting before flowering.. as I killed my "big" one waiting for flowering and then in a week and half started our summer temps earlier than usual which eventually lead to a sad demise for my azalea.

 

[SgtPilko]

My trees are normally in afternoon dappled shade when the temperatures are above 30C

Repots are done mainly in the spring, before flowering as these give the tree the most time to grow strong…. and we have had too many Heat Dome events to be comfortable with repotting an expensive tree in late spring early summer. Last years 45+C event really put people on notice. That said, I have been known to do repots/root work up to early August, given good weather forecast... but do have multiple options to protect trees others may not have.

Janine Doste’s book is good for starters. Considering Alexander Kennedy, Floral Treasures of Japan, hails from the UK, I’m surprised you haven’t seen it…

Besides Watanabe’s book, focused on bigger trees, there is a new, comprehensive,book coming out by Rick Garcia - Satsuki Azalea Bonsai in a week or two. It will be 45USD but the shipping may be a bear for you. Considering the way good satsuki books have jacked up in price almost exponentially it also might be something to look at.

We are pretty rainy here too. If you put a tree on the ground, the major concern is to rest the tree on a bed of medium bark, sharp stones, anything draining. I cold greenhouse my younger azaleas, but only resort to green housing my larger tree when the temperatures get about -3C. For plastic greenhouses, these are mostly treated as cold frames, keeping the trees sheltered from the elements. So as @Glaucus mentions, keeping a flap open unless it’s freezing is key.

cheers
DSD sends

Thanks again for all the advice, much appreciated. Seems that "Floral Treasures of Japan" is well out of print so £90 2nd hand even here in the UK. Might show up at a show or a sale or something. "Relatively" recent books appreciating in value was not something I experienced prior to bonsai, crazy but I kinda like it

I will make appropriate winter arrangements but think it should be OK, hardiness was what put me off Satsuki in the beginning but think it'll be OK. I guess that is something fun about bonsai and the luck of a middling temperate climate, can have a lot of cool stuff altogether. With climate change here in London should probably worry about lack of cold for the Pines, Larch etc!

 

[SgtPilko]

I think Zuiun has pretty much peaked, I didnt get an all-in-one explosion of flowers but gradual over a few weeks. That has its merits too I guess! Looking forward to getting into midsummer pruning soon as its done...

Thanks for all the advice folks. (P.s. looks like a few cuttings have rooted, but havent seen any proper growth on them yet)

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Sometimes folks take off the initial flush, to allow the entire rest of the flowers to bloom at once.

Then the ‘Remove all flowers once 80% are spent’ guideline accounts for removing all the late bloomers too, which allows after flower pruning to take place …and gives the new growth as long of a run as possible prior to winter

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[SgtPilko]

Thanks DSD, yeah will take them all off this weekend so I can start the summer pruning soon. I notice i got extensions, new foliage and flowers during this spring-summer period - the trunk/structure went from kind of visible to totally covered v fast.

 

[SgtPilko]

This tree after summer clean-up. Fairly conservative just tidying some of this year's growth and large leaves, will probably repot and not let this one flower next spring.

 

[SgtPilko]

This newer Nikko tree went through the same summer thin-out, but is a bit less vigorous. I have a feeling it was repotted recently as the kanuma is loose, but still tempted to repot this next Spring also as it is in a plastic container which I don't really like...

 

[RoadManDenDron]

Very nice trees, where are you buying these?