New shimpaku, with fungus and mites. Need help

[s2kMark]

Hi everyone,

So I picked up a new plant over the weekend, a shimpaku juniper with a good amount of work done to it.



I went to a local bonsai place because I wanted to get moss for a different project I'm doing at home. The place has lots of different species of bonsai plants, all set out on racks in a green house area. It was very humid and tons of moss would grow below the racks and all over the water, with some being very wet and squishy. While picking moss, I noticed some pieces looked moldy with a bluish color coming in on the bottom side. I saw some Junipers with mushrooms growing on the moss in the pot.

I picked out my plant because it was my favorite. I bought some crumbled volcanic rock and pebble fertilizer for it. Once I got home, I started reading up and saw that shimpakus like drier soils. I removed the moss it had and covered it with the red volcanic rock pebbles. I wanted to some maintenance pruning and then noticed some problems.


I believe I have a fungus problem. The above and below photos show the black colored webbing/fuzz growing on some of the leaves. The last photo below also shows some green stuff growing on the trunk. I think the green stuff is coming from the moss that used to be on the plant. I removed pretty much all the moss, and tried scraping some of the green stuff off.

After reviewing some articles online, I bought some copper fungicide spray and gave the branches and trunk a good spraying yesterday. I gave the plant its first dose of water today. I also mist the branches once or twice throughout the day since getting the plant on Saturday. The fungicide says to use it every 7-10 days until the plant gets better.




Additionally, I was taking a look at the plant today, and I saw a few small white bugs walking along the trunk. My guess is that they are spider mites.

So, my questions. I will look for some sort of insecticide tomorrow that works on spider mites. Do you guys recommend any specific sprays? Should I wait a few days (say Wednesday or Thursday) to spray the insecticide since I recently sprayed the fungicide? Is there another routine I should follow? I am insist on not returning the plant and keeping it alive. If it goes through this, I will repot it in say November or so.

I have the plant in my backyard. It gets a lot of sunshine, but is underneath some cover so it doesn't get the full sun throughout the hot day. I am in Miami so it gets scorching hot and humid.

 

[Paradox]

Spider mites are not little white bugs on the trunk, they are usually in the foliage and they're usually very small, round, black or red.
If you want to check for them, hold a white sheet of paper under a branch and shake the branch. Look at the paper and see if there are tiny thing crawling around with the description above.
They are very tiny and hard to see, so I dont think you would see them on the trunk.

The tree does look like it has scale and maybe spider mites based on the picture of the foliage but its neither are very advanced yet if there are scale and/or mites there.
I use Sevin for both

The trunk looks like it has algae or moss growing on it, as if the trunk was kept too wet from water being sprayed on it when watering. Mushrooms and moldy looking stuff on the other trees you saw would also indicate too much water.

I dont know what that sooty, grey stuff on the foliage is. The picture is kind of blurry. Could be the moldy stuff you saw.

Be careful with the watering, try not to get the trunk and foliage wet for now and water only when it needs it (ie the soil is almost dry). Dont let the soil get bone dry.

Do not do any other work to the tree until it gets better and starts growing strong again. Certainly not until next year at the earliest.

Also, that looks like a procumbens nana juniper, not a shimpaku

Good luck

 

[sorce]

This has failure written all over it....

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[s2kMark]

Thanks for the info!

 

[BeebsBonsai]

@Paradox Just wanted to add to what you said, because Paradox was spot on. It looks like you have white/black sooty mold on your foliage. Typically, with spider mite infestations, you would see a browning of the affected foliage. It is possible that you have some kind of scale or borer. I would doubt borers, but a good bet is scale.

Here is what I would do treatment-wise

1.) Watch water and application of it- Follow what paradox said, but I would add that if you experience rain, or you see it in the forecast, put the tree under some sort of protection from that rain. Water will help spread the fungus so avoiding any contact with the foliage is key.
2.) Fungicide- You don't really want to be using copper fungicide for two reasons. First, it isn't as effective as it's chemical based counterparts, so you aren't giving the best chance at eradicating the problem. Second, copper fungicides can cause phytotoxicity in trees, which could kill off branches, or the entire tree. I don't think that would happen in one season, but I've heard all kinds of people reporting that using copper fungicides causes problems with their trees.
3.) Use Mancozeb- Mancozeb is a broad-spectrum fungicide that will arrest the black sooty mold you see. It is possible that the foliage infected will die, but you will stop it by using Mancozeb every ten days or so.
4.) Pest infestations- For pest infestations, use horticultural spray oil. This will help with potential scale and mite issues. As a bonus, it causes your foliage to glow a brighter green. (Note: For 24 hours after the oil is applied, keep your tree out of direct sunlight if temperatures in your area are going to reach 80, it will burn the foliage).
5.) Identify potential pests- @Paradox, let me and him know if you think this is a good idea. I would suggest taking a small portion of the tree where you expect an infestation, and scraping the thick flaky bark from that small area. Once you see red under where you are scraping, stop scraping. It should come off easy with a flat head screwdriver, but pay attention as you do so. A lot of times, if you have an infestation, you will be able to see the scale and borers by popping off a portion of the bark.
6.) Moss on the trunk- Take white vinegar and apply it with a paintbrush to the areas of the trunk with the moss, or more likely, algae present. This will kill off the algae and leave the bark unharmed.

I hope this helps, and as always, if a more senior member here disagrees with anything I have said, please let me and the OP know. I will say I have had scale on a few of my trees, and the horticultural spray oil works wonders.

 

[BeebsBonsai]

Ohh, and in the spring, like mid may to june, I would recommend stripping all of the bark off of the tree to get down to that red color underneath. It'll make the juniper look better anyway, just proceed with caution and a steady hand. An application in winter of insecticide will also help eliminate the larvae of the scale. I would say one application in early dormancy, and one just before you think you'll see new growth in the spring.

 

[s2kMark]

Thank you Beebs, that was really informative.

I have the tree outside, but underneath the overhang of my roof in the backyard. It's Miami, so temperatures will get into the 90s, but the plant is not in direct sunlight past the early morning.

I applied some Sevin spray yesterday. I will switch up the fungicide over the weekend since I last sprayed that on Sunday. The white vinegar trick sounds like a great plan that I will try as well, thank you for that.

Do you recommend replacing the Sevin treatment for the horticultural oil? I think I saw some oil spray that were meant for roses and others for vegetables.

As for the pests, I've only seen them crawling on the trunk. They are very small, barely visible, and white in color (maybe clear). They are round with many legs.

 

[Stickroot]

Definetly not a Shimpaku.
Procumbins.
It will be lots of work to get this healthy enough to make it through winter.

 

[BeebsBonsai]

Thank you Beebs, that was really informative.

I have the tree outside, but underneath the overhang of my roof in the backyard. It's Miami, so temperatures will get into the 90s, but the plant is not in direct sunlight past the early morning.

I applied some Sevin spray yesterday. I will switch up the fungicide over the weekend since I last sprayed that on Sunday. The white vinegar trick sounds like a great plan that I will try as well, thank you for that.

Do you recommend replacing the Sevin treatment for the horticultural oil? I think I saw some oil spray that were meant for roses and others for vegetables.

As for the pests, I've only seen them crawling on the trunk. They are very small, barely visible, and white in color (maybe clear). They are round with many legs.

I don't think it is necessarily required to change out of the sevin treatment. If it works, why reinvent the wheel. What I will say is that insects evolve quickly, as they have short life spans, so constantly using an insecticide for the problem could cause the bugs to get resilient to it over generations. But for now, if it works, don't fix it.

Also, with your heat, spray oil might not be the best idea. However, I would recommend getting this guy full sun, assuming you can water it. You said it was in a greenhouse, so over the next few weeks, gradually bring it closer to full sun, as it could burn depending on how dirty the greenhouse glass was. Dirtier the glass= less uv coming through = more of a shock when moving it to full sun. It will help with the fungus and junipers love sun, so full sun is good for a recovering tree. Just be sure you can water properly so it doesn't dry out too much.

Best of luck with this one.

 

[devolved primate]

After looking at your pics I don't see any spider mite signs such as stipling caused by feeding or webbing, both of which are hallmarks of spider,russet and broad mite infestation.scale is possible but they are usually easily observed attached to foliage and bark. Imicloprid is a systemic insecticide especially effective on mites and other pests such as scale, mealybugs,thrips, aphids etc.i prefer Bayer tree and shrub formula. Low phyototoxicity along with a significant kill rate and long term residual action as it is a systemic. Spinosad which is a bacillus formulation that is also a systemic insecticide but I have not found it to be quite as effective and quick acting as imicloprid but it is a less chemical option for pest control esp mites. With the apparent wetness of your soil the small white bugs u saw (if close to the soil) may very well be beneficial soil mites such as hypoapsis miles, gasamid, mesostigmata or orbitad mites all of which are beneficial predators and decomposers. If the little bugs jump when you mess with them than they are more than likely collemboans or springtails, also beneficial decomposers. The trunk and foliage appear to have sooty mold or powdery mildew but can't be sure from pics due to focus. Definitely agree with beebsbonsai previous post about fungicide use and choice esp as i have limited experience with juniper (but lots of experience with horticultural issues lol).Would recommend getting a 30x loupe to examine your plants regularly for pests and cultural issues.it makes it much easier to figure out what your fighting.good luck,hope this helps.

 

[BeebsBonsai]

After looking at your pics I don't see any spider mite signs such as stipling caused by feeding or webbing, both of which are hallmarks of spider,russet and broad mite infestation.scale is possible but they are usually easily observed attached to foliage and bark. Imicloprid is a systemic insecticide especially effective on mites and other pests such as scale, mealybugs,thrips, aphids etc.i prefer Bayer tree and shrub formula. Low phyototoxicity along with a significant kill rate and long term residual action as it is a systemic. Spinosad which is a bacillus formulation that is also a systemic insecticide but I have not found it to be quite as effective and quick acting as imicloprid but it is a less chemical option for pest control esp mites. With the apparent wetness of your soil the small white bugs u saw (if close to the soil) may very well be beneficial soil mites such as hypoapsis miles, gasamid, mesostigmata or orbitad mites all of which are beneficial predators and decomposers. If the little bugs jump when you mess with them than they are more than likely collemboans or springtails, also beneficial decomposers. The trunk and foliage appear to have sooty mold or powdery mildew but can't be sure from pics due to focus. Definitely agree with beebsbonsai previous post about fungicide use and choice esp as i have limited experience with juniper (but lots of experience with horticultural issues lol).Would recommend getting a 30x loupe to examine your plants regularly for pests and cultural issues.it makes it much easier to figure out what your fighting.good luck,hope this helps.

Imicloprid is also an often recommended brand too. I find it to be a bit on the expensive side of even. Some of the trunk does appear as though it could have scale, just looking at the bark formation and how it differs from certain dark areas. A lot of times, once scale gets it's hard exoskeleton, a lot of the more natural remedies won't solve your problem. I have seen people use spoons or other wedging devices to pry the scale off the bark. Plenty of youtube videos to show you what scale looks like. I recommend searching "Removing scale from bonsai" or "bonsai scale removal. It'll help you understand what you are looking for.

 

[devolved primate]

Agreed beebs,I have spent plenty of time scraping those little bastards off plants by hand as they are fairly resistant to a lot of insecticides due to that exoskeleton, had a bunch on some succulents this year that was a hassle to pick off . this is another reason I'm a huge fan of systemic insecticide as it is trans located throughout the plant tissue and if they feed on it they die. Also the systemic effect has less of an impact on the beneficial critters around the plant and root zone. You do need to be aware that systemic treatments can negatively impact honey bee population if you apply to flowering plants. Definitely worth looking up some entomology sites for help identifying common plant pests and habits. Like they say knowledge is power haha☺

 

[devolved primate]

Btw, one maker of spinosad is Jack's and can be found at Lowe's and home depot. They also have different horticultural oil and pyrethrum formulas that are pretty good products if you wanted to go that route.

 

[Paradox]

I would not spray horticultural oil this time of year with the heat and sun. The Sevin will take care of the scale.
I use horticultural/dormant oil in the fall when I put the trees into winter storage.

Also. I have never seen scale on the bark, only on the foliage of a tree. The Sevin will probably take care of the critters you saw crawling on the trunk.

 

[s2kMark]

Thank you everyone for all the great tips. You're all very helpful.

I will look for Mancozeb at home depot over the weekend. If there is none there, are there any other recommended fungicides?

I applied some white vinegar to the algae with a brush last night, so I'll keep an eye on that for the next few days. I saw the bugs again, and they were jumping while I was applying the vinegar. I see them walking around the trunk from bottom to top.

Last, I'll stay away from the horticultural oils given the heat. But, out of curiousity, what is neem oil all about?

 

[Paradox]

Neem oil is used as a dormant/ horticultural oil and is also used to smother things like scale. It is a mild insecticide and works on some things. Some say it's mildly antifungal as well but I am not sure about that.

I spray it on my pines and junipers when I put them away for winter storage. To get rid of any potential scale or adelgids that might still be on them. It stinks up the garage for a week or so but it's better than the chemicals in that enclosed space.

It is not good to use it in the sun/heat

 

[s2kMark]

Hi everyone,

So I think I figured what the little white critters were. I found what looked like a pregnant spider (smallish, white, but engorged) inside a nearby clay statue, and smooshed it. I was washing the statue and the spider came out. I moved the clay statue far away from the juniper. I also noticed some spider webbing, but got rid of it. I wasn't able to find anything crawling on the trunk, but ill spray the sevin again in a few days to be sure. I haven't been able to identify anything that looks like scale, but maybe I'm missing it.

After the first application of white vinegar, I noticed there was a bit less algae. I reapplied vingar on the trunk, and got in between the branches to find more algae to apply vinegar to. Also, where the foliage had the black sooty mold, I applied vinegar directly to the sooty foliage. Any thoughts on that? The plant is under the roof's overhang, so it is in enough shade to avoid direct sun, but still get plenty of light and heat.

Last, I tried looking for mancozeb, but couldn't find it at home depot. I looked online, and amazon has it, but it looks like its been banned in some states and countries. Is there any concern I should have?

Any thoughts on Dr. Earth's fungicide for trees/shrubs/fruits/vegetables? Or any other recommendations? I'll do one more application of the copper fungicide before I decide on a replacement.

I think ill do some neem oil starting november. Its Miami, so temps should drop to 80/70, lol, but the juniper will remain under the overhang shade.

On a side note, my freshly seeded basil, cilantro and oregano are doing really well.

 

[Paradox]

Last, I tried looking for mancozeb, but couldn't find it at home depot. I looked online, and amazon has it, but it looks like its been banned in some states and countries. Is there any concern I should have?

Any thoughts on Dr. Earth's fungicide for trees/shrubs/fruits/vegetables? Or any other recommendations? I'll do one more application of the copper fungicide before I decide on a replacement.

.

For Fungicide, its good to alternate the copper with Daconil.
For insecticide, I recommend Sevin.

Daconil and Sevin are both carried by Home Depot.
I live in the land of "no" when it comes to pesticides so if its not banned here, Id doubt its banned there.

 

[R3x]

Hi everyone,

So I picked up a new plant over the weekend, a shimpaku juniper with a good amount of work done to it.

View attachment 158617

I went to a local bonsai place because I wanted to get moss for a different project I'm doing at home. The place has lots of different species of bonsai plants, all set out on racks in a green house area. It was very humid and tons of moss would grow below the racks and all over the water, with some being very wet and squishy. While picking moss, I noticed some pieces looked moldy with a bluish color coming in on the bottom side. I saw some Junipers with mushrooms growing on the moss in the pot.

I picked out my plant because it was my favorite. I bought some crumbled volcanic rock and pebble fertilizer for it. Once I got home, I started reading up and saw that shimpakus like drier soils. I removed the moss it had and covered it with the red volcanic rock pebbles. I wanted to some maintenance pruning and then noticed some problems.
View attachment 158618

I believe I have a fungus problem. The above and below photos show the black colored webbing/fuzz growing on some of the leaves. The last photo below also shows some green stuff growing on the trunk. I think the green stuff is coming from the moss that used to be on the plant. I removed pretty much all the moss, and tried scraping some of the green stuff off.

After reviewing some articles online, I bought some copper fungicide spray and gave the branches and trunk a good spraying yesterday. I gave the plant its first dose of water today. I also mist the branches once or twice throughout the day since getting the plant on Saturday. The fungicide says to use it every 7-10 days until the plant gets better.
View attachment 158619

View attachment 158620

Additionally, I was taking a look at the plant today, and I saw a few small white bugs walking along the trunk. My guess is that they are spider mites.

So, my questions. I will look for some sort of insecticide tomorrow that works on spider mites. Do you guys recommend any specific sprays? Should I wait a few days (say Wednesday or Thursday) to spray the insecticide since I recently sprayed the fungicide? Is there another routine I should follow? I am insist on not returning the plant and keeping it alive. If it goes through this, I will repot it in say November or so.

I have the plant in my backyard. It gets a lot of sunshine, but is underneath some cover so it doesn't get the full sun throughout the hot day. I am in Miami so it gets scorching hot and humid.

Not to scare you but those bulges on the trunk look bit like a symptom of pear rust... You'll get the suspicion confirmed or invalidated in spring when wet weather comes: look for orange slimey stuff (search Google pictures for "pear rust on juniper"). Hope I'm wrong.

 

[sorce]

I'm not big on anything beyond squashing bugs and neem oil.....

But in one a dem Mirai Videos he was talking about how they use SPECIFIC FUNGICIDES FOR SPECIFIC TREES.

If I remember correctly...
(Which I don't have to because it was making it MORE difficult and off putting for my NFG approach)

Mancozeb was one of the particulars.

Might not matter....

Might matter a lot!

Sorce