New term for American bonsai

[Deleted member 21616]

Yep Dereck, the first one to like it. You guys are like a broken record.

I 'liked' the post by @Saddler because i agree with him. I use my thread as a personal blog, to help keep track of progress, mistakes and successes, and to receive ideas, advice, help, and encouragement from others. Most recently, I made a mistake with my air layer, but would not have known it had @0soyoung not explained the error to me; @RobertB kindly complimented my (albeit amateur) woodwork; and i received great advice from @Saddler and @JudyB for my winter storage/greenhouse. I make an effort to invite people to share their opinions, and I sometimes direct these invitations to people that i look up to (without ever feeling as though i am entitled to a response - i am simply happy if I do receive one ).

In short, my thread feels like an online bonsai community - people sharing with others, discussing with others, and learning from others - and i do not personally take credit for that. This is just what the community is.

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/my-maples-in-montreal.33315/page-5

I simply choose to use my thread this way. There are all sorts of uses for threads!

Without wanting to tell you what to do, it would seem from your posts that you feel as though you have had some great success with a large number of trees. Perhaps you could look to Walter Pall for inspiration? He regularly posts excellent progression threads. I personally learn a lot by simply looking at his photos, as I am sure others do too. We all know he does not like to be questioned (in the sense of 'doubted'), but he does respond to questions and when he does many of us learn a lot about his practices and reasoning. Perhaps this might be an interesting way for you to contribute to the forum? I can say without a doubt that many of us have a lot to learn from you.

How about a third account: @AlKeppler ? You can keep the @Bananaman when you need to be 'negative Al' and vent about youngsters and the state of this online forum, but you can also have an account for when you feel like being 'positive Al'. This idea makes me happy.

 

[Saddler]

[QUOTE="Bananaman, post: 598725, member: 24621"
Besides I offered to give you some criticism on your maple tree. Scared?[/QUOTE]
I’ve seen my father make grown men cry telling them what he thought of their work multiple times. He thought he had to be the hardest on me though. If you want to give my maple your harshest criticism, be my guest. It is literally impossible for you to hurt my feeling or even touch a nerve.

Al, I keep you around because I like you. Your insults are so bad they are funny, like in a really campy 'C' grade movie. Keep it up.

 

[just.wing.it]

. If you can't make a great tree in five years you have failed.

I tend to agree....but I'd preface it with this:
Once one has built up enough significant bonsai knowledge...you should be able to make a worthy looking tree in 5 years.
I'm just over 3 full years in the hobby now.
I only have 2 trees from my first year, 2015....and they are both coming along quite nicely....for what they are.

And I wont ignore you either Al!
I like how you light fires under our asses....helped me with a tree or 2.
Thanks!

 

[Bananaman]

Besides I offered to give you some criticism on your maple tree. Scared?
I’ve seen my father make grown men cry telling them what he thought of their work multiple times. He thought he had to be the hardest on me though. If you want to give my maple your harshest criticism, be my guest. It is literally impossible for you to hurt my feeling or even touch a nerve.

Al, I keep you around because I like you. Your insults are so bad they are funny, like in a really campy 'C' grade movie. Keep it up.

I touch your nerves everytime I post.

 

[Bananaman]

How about a third account: @AlKeppler ? You can keep the @Bananaman when you need to be 'negative Al' and vent about youngsters and the state of this online forum, but you can also have an account for when you feel like being 'positive Al'. This idea makes me happy.

Actually I'm not here to make you happy.

I have plenty of progression threads here. At least as many as Walter and probably more than that. And....you know what, all of them have some smart ass here that comes in and has something childish to say in the thread. Something either stupid about the tree or something about me personally. actually after over twenty years on bonsai discussion forums I am tired of trying to help incompetent newbies make better trees without so much as a thank you.

Thank you for your thoughts though, I appreciate your idea. Just not for me.

Challenge for you though, maybe you can figure out my other user names. I have six here.

 

[MichaelS]

Calling all of this contemplation over the value of approaches to bonsai and the end result horshit kind of reveals where you may be in the art.

You seem to have trouble in comprehension of this post Vance. I did not call the value of contemplation of different approaches to bonsai horseshit. I happen to think that has much value but that is an entirely different subject. What I call horseshit is using these differences in approach to give validity to a change of name.

 

[coh]

Actually I'm not here to make you happy.

I have plenty of progression threads here. At least as many as Walter and probably more than that. And....you know what, all of them have some smart ass here that comes in and has something childish to say in the thread. Something either stupid about the tree or something about me personally. actually after over twenty years on bonsai discussion forums I am tired of trying to help incompetent newbies make better trees without so much as a thank you.

Thank you for your thoughts though, I appreciate your idea. Just not for me.

Challenge for you though, maybe you can figure out my other user names. I have six here.

Only 6? I bet one of them is Poink88

 

[MichaelS]

. Not seen many other compositions that come close to its specificity to a distinct American desert landscape.
http://www.langbonsai.com/experimental.htm
View attachment 211954

To me as an outsider, (not the artist) this fails miserably as a depiction of an American desert scene. My immediate and very strong impression was of a Japanese urban landscape. I can almost see the crowds rushing down from their offices to grab some quick noodles for lunch!

 

[Vin]

Only 6? I bet one of them is Poink88

Ouch! That's going to hurt.

 

[Solaris]

Huh? That's pretty silly and a false equivalency to what's going on...

In that analogy, the raw marble would be an untrained plant. It can be nice to look at, but that doesn't make it bonsai.

How about a third account: @AlKeppler ? You can keep the @Bananaman when you need to be 'negative Al' and vent about youngsters and the state of this online forum, but you can also have an account for when you feel like being 'positive Al'. This idea makes me happy.

That presumes 'positive Al' is even possible. I remain convinced he comes here solely to threadcrap and show off.

 

[SU2]

I agree, the concept of the American bonsai has been floated, suggested and debated around here, and at times and places even before this site was born. The end results were sketchy, ugly, and the concept used as an excuse to produce and justify some really butt ugly pieces exempt from critique or criticism being justified as American Bonsai. You were not allowed to say anything bad about the American Bonsai, and your criticism would fall into the pit of being mean-spirited and condescending. Thankfully Ryan has brought this up and has the established reputation visible for all to see that he knows what he is talking about. When Americans start producing bonsai that are as significantly and beautifully different from bonsai as bonsai was from Penjin then maybe a new name could be thought of for the American Bonsai.

Very interesting!! I cannot help but wonder if it's not counter-productive though? Here's why- in the past, before "the information age", it's completely reasonable to expect significant enough regional-variance in styles that you'd have bonsai depart from penjing when Japan took-on the art, but now? Now, a very large % of people are learning online and breaking regional barriers in doing so, I can't help but think this will lead to both better bonsai worldwide as well as more of a homogenizing effect on the art (ie there'll be styles of trees like Naturalistic, not styles of countries like "American-style bonsai")

Just a thought! Eager to see where bonsai goes in my lifetime, was nice reading W.Pall's predictions of where 'US bonsai' is headed

"As there is no such thing as THE Japanese bonsai way there will be no one American bonsai way. There will be more ways than at present and the ways will differ from the Japanese more than now.

Wish I got going on bonsai when I was younger!!!

 

[Bananaman]

That presumes 'positive Al' is even possible. I remain convinced he comes here solely to threadcrap and show off.

I challenge you to write a good constructive article about any number of methods in the art of bonsai. Maybe a progression of a few of your best trees. Explain where you see them in ten years and how you plan to get there.

Then after you been doing this for 35 years, have trees that have won cash awards, belonged to as many as five clubs at one time, been officers in two of those clubs, organized their yearly exhibits and all the while also spending five years as a trustee for Golden State Bonsai Federation and the Chairman of the Grants and Scholarship program who paid to send people like Boon and Ryan to Japan to study.

Belonged to half a dozen discussion groups over the last 25 years. My contributions to this forum are many as well as to those before this one. My blog still continues to draw hundreds of readers daily. So..... after you do all that, get back to me and we can discuss the sorry state of this forum and it’s dying sticks in pots.

Cheers to ya noob
Al

 

[Saddler]

I challenge you to write a good constructive article about any number of methods in the art of bonsai. Maybe a progression of a few of your best trees. Explain where you see them in ten years and how you plan to get there.

Then after you been doing this for 35 years, have trees that have won cash awards, belonged to as many as five clubs at one time, been officers in two of those clubs, organized their yearly exhibits and all the while also spending five years as a trustee for Golden State Bonsai Federation and the Chairman of the Grants and Scholarship program who paid to send people like Boon and Ryan to Japan to study.

Belonged to half a dozen discussion groups over the last 25 years. My contributions to this forum are many as well as to those before this one. My blog still continues to draw hundreds of readers daily. So..... after you do all that, get back to me and we can discuss the sorry state of this forum and it’s dying sticks in pots.

Cheers to ya noob
Al

Right on queue....

I’m just waiting for you to tell us about how you made Ryan Neil’s career and your illustrious path in American bonsai again to show us what you are made of. Yaaaawwwwn.

 

[Bananaman]

Right on queue....

I've shown what I'm made of....what is lacking around here is what "your" made of.

Pony up

....pure envy....sad

 

[Bananaman]

Right on queue....

Just for fun

Lets do a tree for tree challenge... You post one then I'll post one. We'll keep going till the other fizzles out. You up for it big mouth?

 

[Deleted member 21616]

@Bananaman

some people come here to gather and share ideas and learn from others, and may not be here because they have achieved something or think they have anything to contribute in the way of bonsai expertise. I fall into this category.

Indeed, it is possible to be a member of this forum and have great discussions without ever owning any trees at all.

Personally, some of the best discussions I have had about bonsai were with people who knew nothing about it, but who asked interesting questions that I had not thought of before and could not answer. Nonetheless, most of my learning about the practice of bonsai takes place here, on this forum.

When you (here and elsewhere) challenge people to write an article, show their work, or list their achievements you may be asking them to contend in a realm that they are not part of (and likely never claimed or desired to be part of).

For example, I have made no contribution to the practice of bonsai nor to the clubs and communities i am merely a part of, nor do i have any trees that I would call bonsai. Am I therefore--in your view--not entitled to post any comment or share any ideas or views on this forum?

 

[Bananaman]

@Bananaman

some people come here to gather and share ideas and learn from others, and may not be here because they have achieved something or think they have anything to contribute in the way of bonsai expertise. I fall into this category.

Indeed, it is possible to be a member of this forum and have great discussions without ever owning any trees at all.

Personally, some of the best discussions I have had about bonsai were with people who knew nothing about it, but who asked interesting questions that I had not thought of before and could not answer. Nonetheless, most of my learning about the practice of bonsai takes place here, on this forum.

When you (here and elsewhere) challenge people to write an article, show their work, or list their achievements you may be asking them to contend in a realm that they are not part of (and likely never claimed or desired to be part of).

For example, I have made no contribution to the practice of bonsai nor to the clubs and communities i am merely a part of, nor do i have any trees that I would call bonsai. Am I therefore--in your view--not entitled to post any comment or share any ideas or views on this forum?

Absolutely you should post whatever you want and do what ever you want. But I am tired of the bash me at every opportunity. I have said hardly anything in this thread but the last four or five posts took shots at me for no reason. Just as you are entitled to do and say whatever you wish around here, so am I. I use the ignore feature. It works really well. Many have said they don't want to. I get that, but shut the hell up then about me. I been here a long time and I ain't going anywhere. If you don't want to read my rhetoric, ignore me.

I have to put up with all the newbie crap, and you should have to take a little from me also. I am very dedicated to the art, live in a place where bonsai is practiced state wide, and material is deep and cheap. There are an abundance of teachers here and a club in every city. I think California has 88 clubs now, maybe more. I haven't checked in a while. I just want a little respect, I know I've earned it here. You play nice and I'll play nice.

For me, Talk is cheap. I want to see trees. I want to see work and progressions. This place used to be full of them. Names that hardly post here anymore. Ask your self, why is that?

 

[Saddler]

Just for fun

Lets do a tree for tree challenge... You post one then I'll post one. We'll keep going till the other fizzles out. You up for it big mouth?

That is your response to something I predicted halfway through this thread, good job lol. Your responses are always the same...’I’m the best and have been on all the boards...blah blah blah' and 'I made Ryan’s career' which inevitably is followed shortly after with 'show me your trees so I can show you mine because I have a compulsive need to boast about my trees' or some other skipping CD-R like rhetoric.

I don’t think you understand what the term “big mouth” means, but I blame Dunning-Kruger for that. We could do your tree challenge and I’ll be the first to admit my trees are far from refined. The only isssue I have is I don’t think I can tell any of your trees apart. You could be posting the same tree from different seasons and angles and no one would know. Last time I posted a tree the most you could say was about the traffic on it haha.

 

[TN_Jim]

it’s bone fool!

 

[Bonsai toto]

enough is enough... make peace..
so......who like bonsai? anyone?
lol
cheers and peace