New to bonsai, Chinese elm and bougainvillea

Thor

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image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg Hello all! I am new to posting here as I have been reading information on this site for about a month now. I still feel lost, but I believe I did all the possible reading I could do(without my head exploding with info) and I know I needed to acquire a tree and just start.I currently live in San Diego, but soon I will be moving to Central Florida. I read on this site that a good place to buy was at the San Diego bonsai club show they have in the spring. So I waited about 2 weeks for the show and read as much as possible thinking I could be a little prepared on what species I wanted and what is a good beginner. I showed up to the show to find the place packed with people buying trees and awesome displays. After going through all the trees for sale I found two that I really liked. I got the Chinese elm and a bougainvillea. I am attaching pictures....

So I have a couple questions as a noob. First the Chinese elm. What should I do at this point? I was told that I should trim back the branches to about 2-4 leaves on the new growth. I am kinda confused on what to cut and what to let grow out. There seems to be a lot of dead branches just chillen off of main branches....should I get rid of those? And should I be fertilizing and how? I will try to get some better pics tomorrow. I am open to all suggestions and I value all opinions and advice!

Second the bougainvillea. I really liked the shape of this one...it was just so different from everything else. I have read how to water this guy so I think I'm pretty good with that. The main question I have with this one is fertilizer. Basically when and how......?

I was told at the show by the members there that both these do not to be reported for about 2 years....your thoughts? Thanks for your time and advice. I will post progress pics and what not.
 

Thor

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Welcome to Crazy!

That avatar picture is great!

Looks like good stuff to run back to Florida with!

This is all I got for pruning that elm.
http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATDeciduousBonsaiBranchStructure.html

Lotta great stuff there!

Sorce
Thanks for the info! I already feel apart of the group. I was always into reef aquariums as a hobby, but I've been wanting to do this for years!

The avatar picture is from when I got back from a deployment in the pacific. I missed the birth of my second child. It stinks, but I was able to FaceTime from Guam when we made port. 5 months left in the Navy to go!
 

sorce

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Awesome bro!

That website is great for all the basics.
The "rules".

Lotta reefers do bonsai....
It seems a common x-over.
I think the future of bonsai tools is in hybrid coral cutting tools.
Double hinged!

Sorce
 

petegreg

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Good choice. Nice trees you'are starting with.

Sure, remove dead branches. Pruning - generally you were told rigt thing. Prune to 2-4 leaves, leave less if you wanna shorten the branch and more if you need longer... Do not prune if you need thickening of certain branch. When you cut, watch what will happen. You will learn from it. Remove branches crossing the trunk and crossing each other, growing downwards and not needed for intended design as a first basic cleaning. And reduce forks to two escaping branches...
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Nice choices, I like that you chose trees with trunks that are over an inch in diameter. Many beginners pick up thin, young seedlings, and don't realize that to even begin training, there needs to be several years of trunk development. So you did well. Second I like that you sought out the bonsai show, and bought from bonsai dealers. Bonsai is three dimensional, and it is difficult to tell you what could be done in 3 dimensions using one dimensional linear language and 2 dimensional pictures. I would attend a few bonsai club meetings, observe, watch a few demos, and then when you feel ready to, take a bring your own tree workshop with one of the visiting teachers. While you are in California, I recommend Ted Matson or Peter Tea, I don't know the Florida teacher/artists. Ted Matson and Peter Tea are excellent instructors for any level student, from beginner to advanced. But if the opportunity does not present itself for a class, do attend a few club meetings to watch and learn. Nothing beats "learning live". Most clubs will allow guests to attend a few meetings before being required to join, so you can observe and learn without it costing a lot of money. Florida is also a "hot bed" of bonsai. You will be able to "plug in" when you get there. Some great nurseries are there, and you will get many suggestions from BNut, I personally don't know Florida well.

Third is I like that you chose species that will do well both in California's climate and in Florida's climate.

They told you right, these trees won't need to be repotted for a couple years. The pots are oversized enough that they will grow well to allow you to develop branch structure. The small display pots are for trees that have the development work finished. A smaller pot will nearly completely stop the trunk development and slow branch development to a crawl. There may be a point in time when you want to repot to change the angle the trunk leaves the media, or to position these trees a little deeper in the pots. You can explore the why later, no need to repot this year.

So first, do no harm, until you have a clear idea of what changes you want to make. I would try to keep the basic silhouette the same until you have a clear plan in mind for changes. Don't get hung up on "rules", first rule is "there are no rules", second rule is "see first rule". However, the Japanese aesthetic is a fully developed set of design guidelines, coherent from beginning to end, and as such if you don't know what to do, or how to solve a design problem, the Japanese aesthetic can provide ideas. Of course there are many who want to learn and follow the full complete Japanese Bonsai Aesthetics of Design. This is a noble goal unto itself, but not the "only way" to do bonsai. There is a "North American style" of bonsai, actually everywhere bonsai is practiced there are regional styles. So as to the advice about pruning out "crossing branches", only follow that if you, yourself feel the crossing branch is a distraction. Often they are a distraction from the image being created, but not always. Make no cuts unless you know why you are making the cuts. The why will be to improve either the current image, or to change the future image by forcing the tree to grow new or different branches to create a better image.

If you don't know why you should do something, don't. Your bonsai will benefit from this restraint. To keep the current basic shape, let branches grow out until 6 to 10 or so sets of leaves, then prune back to just one, or two or 3 leaves, tree will branch then, allow the cycle to repeat. This will develop finer branching, and may cause some back budding. If new shoots start on your trunks, you can decide whether or not to keep them. It is good to have a lot of branches to choose from before you "style" the tree. I would keep most new shoots, and follow the let them grow out, then cut back sequence.

Most pre-bonsai, and not ready for display trees are grown out for a number of years, usually at least 3, often 5, sometimes 10 years or more depending on species. When the tree is showing good vigor, many branches, and good root health, Only then is the tree "styled". Then maintained and developed for another similar period of time then it is styled again. So styling does not happen every week, or every year. Your trees are in the "in-between" phase, but could be ready for styling soon. No need to rush. I like growing new trees in my collection for a year or two before deciding what I want to do with them. Reason is as you become familiar with the tree, and its growth habits you will see different possibilities. Style it too soon, and you may cut off the best parts.

For example, your bougainvillea has some interesting possibilities, the trunk branches to 3 sub-trunks, if it were mine, I would be reducing it to one trunk, or two sub-trunks. BUT which two? Each has possibilities, but if you cut it off, you can't put it back on. So take your time, because each of the 3 sub-trunks has possibilities. Any one or maybe 2 could become the future tree. Live with it for a year to get your own feel for what you would like.

So nice finds, and welcome to crazy.
 

Starfox

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Welcome!

I wish I could pick up a Bougy as established as that one, top grab that.
Jealous of that material, I either have to dig it or wait for it to grow. Not seen any Bougies round here as bonsai yet they are all over the place in gardens.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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One other thought,
Bougainvillea bloom on new, current year growth, to see the flowers, stop pruning and allow the branches you want to bloom to run. Eventually at the end of the branch the flowers will develop. After flower bracts drop, you can prune back to 2 to 4 or so leaf nodes. Look at when Bougainvillea bloom in your area, count backward about 4 to 6 months, and stop pruning then to let them extend and bloom in season. Just a tip. No point in growing a Bougie if you don't let it bloom.
 

Thor

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Thanks for all the welcomes and the advice. I truly take in mind all the advice and knowledge given. I think I will watch it for a bit and do some more study in order to make a start. I just feel like I am behind and need to start doing something to the elm right away. I will be patient and really think before I cut...kinda copy off of a saying and "think twice, cut once." I also need to get some decent tools anyways. I've read a lot on here about them and I think I am going to go with the kaneshin tools. Has anyone bought those from Japan? If so, how long does it take to get them? I won't tell my wife how much I spent ;)

So anything about fertilizing?
 

Chad D

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Nice Bougie and welcome to B Nut! I sprinkle this fertilizer on the soil every 2-3 weeks. They bloom off and on all summer.

And thumbs up on those tools. That's where all mine have come from.
 

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Thor

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Nice Bougie and welcome to B Nut! I sprinkle this fertilizer on the soil every 2-3 weeks. They bloom off and on all summer.

And thumbs up on those tools. That's where all mine have come from.
Cool, thanks for the info! I will check that out. I got the Elm first off, but I wanted another so I told my wife we should get a flowering tree....got her!
 

sorce

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Has anyone bought those from Japan?

It is better and cheaper too.
Beyond excellent service.
If you are confused on price....
Just send them an email with the products you want....and they will tally it all for you in American$.

I would shop direct if it was 50% more expensive...it's not....and I didn't have to worry about any extra tax or anything either.

They have 3 levels of shipping.
I got mine in like a week. Midlevel I believe.

Surtilize. (sure fertilize)

Sorce

P.s. you are as on-the-ball as I figured you were! Good man!
 

Thor

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It is better and cheaper too.
Beyond excellent service.

P.s. you are as on-the-ball as I figured you were! Good man!

Well I think I'm off to a good start, but it's like I am scared to touch it sometimes haha. I'm always checking on it also (my kid plays outside a lot). My son (2 1/2) wants to touch it and he thinks it is so cool. He is pretty good at obeying so I am not worried about deliberate actions, just accidents.

I'm going to order those tools tomorrow I believe. Which ones are a "must" for now??
 

sorce

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I'm going to order those tools tomorrow I believe. Which ones are a "must" for now??

I bought the 4s concave cutters...
A knob cutter would have been better in hindsight.

Those 2, are the most important IMO.

A pull saw is my next want.
Then everything else slowly.

If you devour that Harry site, it, because it is organized well and contains Everything, you will grasp this very well.

If you cut a branch off an elm, it's gonna grow another there...

Towards the end of getting a trunk worth building branches on, which you just about have, you cut everything off and regrow the branches under your whole control...
Because now smaller branches make the trunk look bigger....

That said...
Because you want your low branches bigger, and regardless it will swell your base, add taper,

You can fiddle a fu@k with the apex all year to get an idea of response to no harm at all....

@Smoke ....his blog has great info for you....elms...similair climate....
He has a thing on "safety cuts"....
Well worth searching....

I simply can't do siss plants...
I got elms from the beginning.
5yrs.
Balls tough.

Sorce
 

eferguson1974

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Thanks for the info! I already feel apart of the group. I was always into reef aquariums as a hobby, but I've been wanting to do this for years!

The avatar picture is from when I got back from a deployment in the pacific. I missed the birth of my second child. It stinks, but I was able to FaceTime from Guam when we made port. 5 months left in the Navy to go!
Thank you for your service!
The bougie will love Fl. Idk about the elm.
I just wanted to say thanks.
 

Thor

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Thank you for your service!
The bougie will love Fl. Idk about the elm.
I just wanted to say thanks.
Thank you for your support! I have 5 months to go and that will be the end of my 5 years active duty. I plan on being a weekend warrior at a sweet Air Force base right off the beach in FL. :) it will be a nice change! I can't wait to do some more Florida fishing! I used to carry a pole everywhere I went. San Diego isn't much for fishing like FL is.....sorry everyone FL rules!!

Plus that Florida sunshine! I am looking forward to a nice yard where I can make some nice stands and sit back and enjoy the view!
 

Cypress187

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Wooow, nice starter material, you must be rich or full of confidence ;)
 
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