new to bonsai, looking for help with serissa

[R_Wood]

I'm new to the site, found it via threads from a few other forums I've been reading up on. I was really happy to see some people specifically with experience growing a serissa.

I just got mine a month ago. I'm really not sure about the age, but it seems to be fairly young. I've yet to see any kind of flowering but I'm assuming that's due to the change of going from outside to inside and the re-potting. I feel pretty good so far with watering and have started feeding using a 10-10-10 mix. I've stopped seeing yellowing leaves and newer, smaller leaves are starting to show up.

I live in Cincinnati, OH. I've been told by some local bonsai enthusiasts that my serissa is better served inside. I keep in a room with the A/C vent closed off and a humidity tray to try and encourage the best environment possible. I have trimmed it once but have yet to wire anything.

I'm ideally looking for help/suggestions on anything from soil/winterizing/design/anything I'm not thinking of. I really appreciate your help and look forward to hearing back.

 

[justBonsai]

Hi,

The serissa is a tropical tree so it does like warmer temperatures and will need be protected from freezes. That said it would best serve your tree to keep it outside when permissible. Keeping it indoors should be okay, but you need to mind humidity levels. The lower humidity levels in a enclosed space can be detrimental to the tree's health or at the least prevent it from achieving optimal vigor. Growing the tree in an organic medium should be fine assuming that you don't over water, but for optimal growing conditions and denser feeder roots you should consider repotting the tree next spring in a more free draining inorganic mix. Depending on what is available to you in your local area you can make an affordable mix out of pumice, napa floor dry, bark, and other various mediums. There is a lot of good information regarding soil mixes on this website--check out the soil sub-forum or use the search function in the upper right. In regards to styling there are a lot of routes you can take. I am by no means an expert at styling trees and if anything I still make many mistakes. When I style trees I try to use examples from both the internet and the nature around me. Find a form or style you like then do research into what methods are inducive in achieving them. After you find "end" goal for this tree ask more specific questions. Your serissa appears to be very young and can be developed in a variety of ways. I would just focus on learning the horticulture to grow your tree as healthy as possible. Keep on reading, watching, and asking and eventually you'll have a solid feel for what you want to do with the tree. In any case good luck with your tree and I hope more experienced members can give you better advice.

Julian

 

[Cadillactaste]

Mine is outdoors currently. Its giving me a real show as well now. (Posted photo in General Discussion area) A tree always does best when one can offer it outdoor exposure when temps permit it.

You say it went from outdoors to indoors and a repot last month. For a finicky know species...how is it holding up to two changes back to back? Has it lost many leaves as its known for?

I've only brought mine in for 5 days when temps changed and dropped. I'm in NE Ohio But in a micro climate.

Inronite I was advised to offer if its leaves aren't very dark. Which I have...mine is in an organic mix. That I was told was fine for it.

I offer it a grow light when indoors. Because I have found that when indoors it causes the internodes to become longer on my tropicals. Which is not what we want.

Do you know what color yours will bloom yet?

Welcome to B-nut!

 

[R_Wood]

Mine is outdoors currently. Its giving me a real show as well now. (Posted photo in General Discussion area) A tree always does best when one can offer it outdoor exposure when temps permit it.

You say it went from outdoors to indoors and a repot last month. For a finicky know species...how is it holding up to two changes back to back? Has it lost many leaves as its known for?

I've only brought mine in for 5 days when temps changed and dropped. I'm in NE Ohio But in a micro climate.

Inronite I was advised to offer if its leaves aren't very dark. Which I have...mine is in an organic mix. That I was told was fine for it.

I offer it a grow light when indoors. Because I have found that when indoors it causes the internodes to become longer on my tropicals. Which is not what we want.

Do you know what color yours will bloom yet?

Welcome to B-nut!

Yeah I bought it from a nursery and they had it outside. When I got home I removed it from the round planter and cut the root mass in half basically so it would fit in the new pot. It has dropped some leaves, definitely. But it's been doing pretty well I think. There's a bonsai society in my area and I was able to get in front of them. Told me it looked good and that serrisas are better indoors in this area? I haven't had any blooms yet. Not sure if it's just too young still or just because of the changes its endured.

 

[R_Wood]

Hi,

The serissa is a tropical tree so it does like warmer temperatures and will need be protected from freezes. That said it would best serve your tree to keep it outside when permissible. Keeping it indoors should be okay, but you need to mind humidity levels. The lower humidity levels in a enclosed space can be detrimental to the tree's health or at the least prevent it from achieving optimal vigor. Growing the tree in an organic medium should be fine assuming that you don't over water, but for optimal growing conditions and denser feeder roots you should consider repotting the tree next spring in a more free draining inorganic mix. Depending on what is available to you in your local area you can make an affordable mix out of pumice, napa floor dry, bark, and other various mediums. There is a lot of good information regarding soil mixes on this website--check out the soil sub-forum or use the search function in the upper right. In regards to styling there are a lot of routes you can take. I am by no means an expert at styling trees and if anything I still make many mistakes. When I style trees I try to use examples from both the internet and the nature around me. Find a form or style you like then do research into what methods are inducive in achieving them. After you find "end" goal for this tree ask more specific questions. Your serissa appears to be very young and can be developed in a variety of ways. I would just focus on learning the horticulture to grow your tree as healthy as possible. Keep on reading, watching, and asking and eventually you'll have a solid feel for what you want to do with the tree. In any case good luck with your tree and I hope more experienced members can give you better advice.

Julian

That's the feeling I'm getting too. I think I just need to make sure it's doing well and worry about design later. Thanks for the soil resources. That's been a bit intimidating because there's so many options and even more opinions. I'll definitely check out this site!

 

[GrimLore]

Welcome to B-Nut!

I have been around a good long while but I recently acquired my first few Serissa on 08/25/15. Three of them were 22-24 inches tall and at least 18 inches wide. I reproduced what I thought to be the substrate they had been propagated in(inspecting what they arrived in. I used course sand, peat, and a decent grade of topsoil(no clumpy clay in it). I have since chopped those three down to 10, 11, and 12 inches and within a couple of days they shoot buds anywhere I cut. They back bud on old wood quickly when I exposed base roots and did initial trimming. The two smaller "whips" and a 12-13 tree "clump" act the same so far. They will all come inside when the nights hover at 50f. They are going to be handled as any Tropical here for the Winter staying at 68 - 73f, 52 -54 percent humidity, and 16 hours of full spectrum plant light per day via timer. Two low volume oscillating desk fans keep the air moving in that room. When they come indoors they will be placed on crushed stone as you have done and that will be kept wet. The roots on these plants grow insane fast and need "damp" NEVER "wet" conditions. I fully expect them to do well here in 6b regardless of what they say about them being fragile. We are having a very hot humid Summer here and they have been outside under the shade of a Japanese Maple receiving filtered sun and daily misting. The breeze has been pretty constant as well this Summer so they get "almost" dry in three days and thus watered.

So far they have not shown any stress with their migration from Georgia.

I am by no means an expert on Serissa but felt it would be good to share my 14 days of initial experience with them as they seem to be doing quite good here in the North East. I think the key to success will be keeping them like a Tropical but treating them like a shrub.

I also took a close look at that picture and it seems you have two in that pot. With the roots being as they are I would suggest waiting until they are very well established if you plan on separating them. That my friend would be a rather crazy job and if you do I would highly advise taking them to a club or someone who is highly skilled to perform that operation.

Grimmy

 

[sorce]

Nice.
I don't Serissa.

But I like yours!

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[Cadillactaste]

Nice call Grimmy! That one on the far right...could be what... Considered a twin trunk or something?

 

[GrimLore]

Considered a twin trunk or something?

I downloaded the picture and expanded it a bit - looks like a separate plant for certain. Really looks like two, not one with a split multi-trunk. No harm really just the roots are very fibrous and it will take a lot of gentle work to get them apart when they are established.

Grimmy

 

[R_Wood]

Welcome to B-Nut!

I have been around a good long while but I recently acquired my first few Serissa on 08/25/15. Three of them were 22-24 inches tall and at least 18 inches wide. I reproduced what I thought to be the substrate they had been propagated in(inspecting what they arrived in. I used course sand, peat, and a decent grade of topsoil(no clumpy clay in it). I have since chopped those three down to 10, 11, and 12 inches and within a couple of days they shoot buds anywhere I cut. They back bud on old wood quickly when I exposed base roots and did initial trimming. The two smaller "whips" and a 12-13 tree "clump" act the same so far. They will all come inside when the nights hover at 50f. They are going to be handled as any Tropical here for the Winter staying at 68 - 73f, 52 -54 percent humidity, and 16 hours of full spectrum plant light per day via timer. Two low volume oscillating desk fans keep the air moving in that room. When they come indoors they will be placed on crushed stone as you have done and that will be kept wet. The roots on these plants grow insane fast and need "damp" NEVER "wet" conditions. I fully expect them to do well here in 6b regardless of what they say about them being fragile. We are having a very hot humid Summer here and they have been outside under the shade of a Japanese Maple receiving filtered sun and daily misting. The breeze has been pretty constant as well this Summer so they get "almost" dry in three days and thus watered.

So far they have not shown any stress with their migration from Georgia.

I am by no means an expert on Serissa but felt it would be good to share my 14 days of initial experience with them as they seem to be doing quite good here in the North East. I think the key to success will be keeping them like a Tropical but treating them like a shrub.

I also took a close look at that picture and it seems you have two in that pot. With the roots being as they are I would suggest waiting until they are very well established if you plan on separating them. That my friend would be a rather crazy job and if you do I would highly advise taking them to a club or someone who is highly skilled to perform that operation.

Grimmy

I completely agree. There definitely seems to be 2 separate trees in there. The one that is already split actually has a pretty good size root that is exposed already. As time goes on, I was thinking of separating them and using the split trunk to possibly grow on rock and leverage that awesome root. With the other, I was thinking of something more like a "traditional" tree, but I keep reading that serissas shouldn't be styled in a formal upright manner?

Grimmy, I'm jealous that yours seems to be much more vigorous than mine. I definitely think keeping it indoors has inhibited its progress. I'm hesitant to take it outside now though because we're pretty much hitting fall after this storm rolls through today and I don't want to shock it again. I also don't have a lighting system. It's in a spare bedroom with the A/C vent shut off. It gets plenty of light in there and the humidity/temp has been significantly warmer. I haven't seen it really grow from the branches I trimmed, but I continue to see budding of new leaves.

 

[R_Wood]

Nice call Grimmy! That one on the far right...could be what... Considered a twin trunk or something?

I'll take more pictures tonight with different angles. I really liked the tree right out of the pot. The trunks have some really nice, dark bark that already makes them look older.

 

[Alain]

Welcome to B-Nut!

I have been around a good long while but I recently acquired my first few Serissa on 08/25/15. Three of them were 22-24 inches tall and at least 18 inches wide. I reproduced what I thought to be the substrate they had been propagated in(inspecting what they arrived in. I used course sand, peat, and a decent grade of topsoil(no clumpy clay in it). I have since chopped those three down to 10, 11, and 12 inches and within a couple of days they shoot buds anywhere I cut. They back bud on old wood quickly when I exposed base roots and did initial trimming. The two smaller "whips" and a 12-13 tree "clump" act the same so far. They will all come inside when the nights hover at 50f. They are going to be handled as any Tropical here for the Winter staying at 68 - 73f, 52 -54 percent humidity, and 16 hours of full spectrum plant light per day via timer. Two low volume oscillating desk fans keep the air moving in that room. When they come indoors they will be placed on crushed stone as you have done and that will be kept wet. The roots on these plants grow insane fast and need "damp" NEVER "wet" conditions. I fully expect them to do well here in 6b regardless of what they say about them being fragile. We are having a very hot humid Summer here and they have been outside under the shade of a Japanese Maple receiving filtered sun and daily misting. The breeze has been pretty constant as well this Summer so they get "almost" dry in three days and thus watered.

So far they have not shown any stress with their migration from Georgia.

I am by no means an expert on Serissa but felt it would be good to share my 14 days of initial experience with them as they seem to be doing quite good here in the North East. I think the key to success will be keeping them like a Tropical but treating them like a shrub.

I also took a close look at that picture and it seems you have two in that pot. With the roots being as they are I would suggest waiting until they are very well established if you plan on separating them. That my friend would be a rather crazy job and if you do I would highly advise taking them to a club or someone who is highly skilled to perform that operation.

Grimmy

I bought a serissa recently and according to Mellow Mullet (who have wonderful ones) they go inside when the T drop to 35-40 F.
Also - despite the fact that they are sub-tropical - they need a dormancy period so mine won't be handle as my ficus but instead I'll place it in a colder (around 50-55) but very bright room.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I'll take more pictures tonight with different angles. I really liked the tree right out of the pot. The trunks have some really nice, dark bark that already makes them look older.

Yours looks much more mature than mine...mine is a stick in the pot...but the blooms make it worth while. Seeing where it came...where it is now...and looking forward to where it goes from here.

I'll enjoy watching your progression threads as well. This is a new tree to me...a friend's late brother in law was into bonsai. I ended up with a few of his trees. (You may have seen it already...on another thread)

 

[R_Wood]

I bought a serissa recently and according to Mellow Mullet (who have wonderful ones) they go inside when the T drop to 35-40 F.
Also - despite the fact that they are sub-tropical - they need a dormancy period so mine won't be handle as my ficus but instead I'll place it in a colder (around 50-55) but very bright room.

Oh that would be great if that's the case. I can keep in the same room and just keep the heat off in there. During the dormancy period......1. how long should that last? 2. Do you still fertilize?

 

[R_Wood]

Yours looks much more mature than mine...mine is a stick in the pot...but the blooms make it worth while. Seeing where it came...where it is now...and looking forward to where it goes from here.

I'll enjoy watching your progression threads as well. This is a new tree to me...a friend's late brother in law was into bonsai. I ended up with a few of his trees. (You may have seen it already...on another thread)
View attachment 81806

I had actually read that before I signed up for the site and made my post. I wanted to see the picture of the tree full size! Oh and I'm happy to see that his trees are being cared for, that's a great gift.

I'm thinking yours may be older just based on the trunk height. My trunks are about the same diameter (at least, from the look of the pics) but they appear to be significantly shorter. I need to call the nursery I purchased it from and ask.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I had actually read that before I signed up for the site and made my post. I wanted to see the picture of the tree full size! Oh and I'm happy to see that his trees are being cared for, that's a great gift.

I'm thinking yours may be older just based on the trunk height. My trunks are about the same diameter (at least, from the look of the pics) but they appear to be significantly shorter. I need to call the nursery I purchased it from and ask.

Shorter is good...it gives the appearance of a thicker trunk.
Mine isn't all that tall...if it's 7 1/2" if that barely. I've not measured the trunk...because it's just a stick. But it's now my stick. It holds meaning...because of it's history.

Yes, it really seemed to bring joy to my friend and her husband...knowing that someone could possibly understand the care they needed. They felt that her brother in law would have liked knowing that.

 

[Alain]

Oh that would be great if that's the case. I can keep in the same room and just keep the heat off in there. During the dormancy period......1. how long should that last? 2. Do you still fertilize?

Well I guess they stay there the time the outside weather go back up to 40...
For the moment I don't fertilize mine and it's still in the same pot I bought it because Mellow Mullet told me not to re-pot it this year.
I did prune it and some shoots are growing (once it finished its teenage yellow leaves crisis... Actually it had 2 teenage crisis: one when I brought it at my place, another one when I pruned it and now I'm expecting the 3rd one as I moved it from its place in my yard to a new bench I built this week-end...)

 

[Alain]

Here is what Mellow Mullet told me (fyi: he lives in Mobile, Alabama, so not much our climate but he knew that):

"I don't know much about the climate in Illinois, but this is how I handle them here.

I bring them in when it gets to 35 - 40 degrees, I have left some out that are just rootings and there are some that are part of the landscape that have braved whatever nature has thrown at it and have survived, but I doubt the roots have ever frozen. If in a pot I would not leave them out and let the roots freeze. The longest mine are inside is maybe a week. Then back out until the next cold snap. We never really have extended cold periods during winter here in south Alabama, 30 degress one week, 70's the next.

Repot in the spring just like the other trees. You can repot in the early summer, but they do not like it, so to play it safe, do it in the spring. The soil that it is in does not look that bad as long as it drains good, you should be able to leave it in there till next spring. I think that your best bet is to leave it in the pot and soil that you have until then. You could prune and wire it, if you like, there is still a lot of growing time left and you could take advantage of that."

And here a a link.
Warning: the T are in Celsius! 7 C is actually 45 F so may be the best is to bring them inside when the T drop around 50-45 at night. The fact that Mellow Mullet lives in Al could explain why they handle lower: it's because they handle it for shorter time periods, for us, poor Northerners, we know that 'Winter is coming' and that when it comes, it stays for awhile...
Speaking of which: you should put your location in your profile, old farts like myself may not remember for long that you live in OH

http://www.bonsai4me.com/SpeciesGuide/Serissa.html

 

[GrimLore]

I definitely think keeping it indoors has inhibited its progress.

Honest I think it has to do with root removal and I am pretty certain it will come back and excel in a few more days if left outside filtered sun and proper water. The only root work I did was removal of substrate at the bases of the larger 3 to allow me to organize them. When I received mine they went out back in the shade in the plastic bags that covered the soil and roots. They received a few heavy misting sessions and were slip potted into similar substrate 24 hours later. There was really no real root work done unless you consider watering the substrate in root work. It just happened to work out that Georgia was having the same weather I was at the time of receipt so they took without skipping a beat(so far).

I must caution you - These plants once established grow FAST especially when trimmed and fertilized during growing season. I think you mentioned styling so consider the growth when you decide. These plants will NEED pruning to maintain a style every three days John does his weekly as that is what his life style allows.

You can expect good results in the house. People in Canada grow them indoors and they do well. You do not need a Tropical setup like we have for my Wife. I mentioned they are going in there but failed to note they will not be as close to the lights as they Tropicals so they can better experience shortness of day. The key with indoors for you will be warmth, natural light and most important humidity. Home depot carries these for 2.98 and we have 3... http://www.homedepot.com/p/AcuRite-Thermometer-with-Humidity-00339HD/100659742 The readings are accurate and match results on the humidifier very consistently.

I have not seen mine bloom either and that is really no concern honest. I know mine and yours will once they are settled in.

Grimmy

 

[sorce]

The roots on these plants grow insane fast

@Cadillactaste

Fanboy here!

Reckon it is a lot of roots on yours!

Sorce