New to bonsai, newly wired/potted (from nursery), now looking a bit "off" (help please)

[wanderingHP]

Hello everyone,

I've been exploring these forums for awhile now, and getting great information here in general, but have not been able to find any help/direction on my issues (maybe I should just "let it be" and it's normal, I've no clue at this point...) SO, here I am

(Bit of backstory, locational stuff... In Ecuador, mountains(ish)..not the coast or the amazon, with a relatively consistent climate year round. Warm days, cold nights, if the sun comes out it can get HOT (so I pay attention to the soil, and have a humidity tray). BUT it also rains a lot (especially this year, and with the nearby volcanic activity). It may rain on/off in the evening and then all throughout the night. It's been "rainy" for the past 3 days now. My plants are in direct sunlight for much of the day...building a rack to help provide partial shade on some of the day for the plants that need it.)

SO... I have two tree's right now that I wired and potted myself. I BELIEVE I've done things as I should, for the species of tree and all, but I am uncertain now. It's day 5 and 6 for a snow rose & cotoneaster and respectively. Both of them (today) look to be "sick" or a bit off. That being said, I've no idea what to expect after wiring and potting (from nursery plant).

The cotoneaster seems fine, except fort it's "berries" are shriveling up, and some of the leaves seem to be browning/losing vigor (but not all).
(first attached image is close-up of BEFORE, second is TODAY)

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But the snow rose looks completely "off." It's leaves are shriveling, curling, or yellowing. The flowers have shriveled and some have browned a bit as well.
(third attached image is close-up of BEFORE, fourth & fifth are TODAY)

​

FYI, I'm aware my wiring is not the best... self taught (videos/forums/sites), but it's not strangling any roots or trunks/branches that I can see. It may explain some of the leaves browning..poor work on my part, but I don't think it would explain it all. And really... in some area's, it's no good, I get it...but it's not tight there, so it can't be the cause of it all (and I'm going to fix it when I'm back and able) (so the pics with crossing wires, yes, I know, but they're "loose" (in essence) and going to be fixed. But to "strangle" the branch is a stretch (despite what the image way look like). I can also send pictures of the same issues on branches that have not been wired at all (if that would help get a clearer answer. Let me know.)

***PLEASE*** constructive criticism.. Help, advice, direction even. But please don't tell me to "go read a book" (or anything like that) or just say "it could be the watering, the pottting, etc." (and list everything without any specifics or examples ). That doesn't help anyone, and it's been a typical "first reply" or so on a few bonsai forums for me so far (unfortunately). I AM new, I don't deny that, but I am also experienced in horticultural (to some extent) and botany in general. I also have extensive "re-potting" experience outside of bonsai. Before I even approached my first tree, I researched and studied all that I could. I'm here on forums now for more specific direct advise/answers to things.


PLEASE! And thank you in advance for any help you all may provide!

 

[sorce]

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[_#1_]

Welcome!

You didnt specify if roots where worked and if the trees where anchored to the pot. Type of soil...

 

[wanderingHP]

SO I was suggested to keep them out of the sun/rain for a couple of weeks... I was leaving them in the typical heavy rain & intense sun (not at the same time, or within close time really). Was told this should allow them to recover...that the new bonsai + wiring + repot should was still too much for it. Despite it being in the OG conditions, they were still "too harsh."

Direction to go in...

 

[wanderingHP]

Welcome!

You didnt specify if roots where worked and if the trees where anchored to the pot. Type of soil...

Apologies... didn't know that was "standard info" for these forums

Roots were worked, yes, taken from a nursery and into substrate... akadama, pumice, small bit of clean soil (was told it's a good mix for my area as well) and there's a layer of river rock at the very bottom to help with drainage (because it rains a lot and/or heavy here).

And I anchored it to the pot, but I was afraid I did so poorly (not tight, but possibly not "well enough") They don't move about or anything, but I was more "scared" to wire it down in the pot (afraid of mucking with roots), so I may have "gone easy" in that regard.

 

[AJL]

How much did you cut off the roots and did you water the plant thoroughly after re potting?

 

[wanderingHP]

How much did you cut off the roots and did you water the plant thoroughly after re potting?

About 1/4 of the cotoneaster (less than I expected to) and about 1/3 of the snow rose.

And yea, I watered it thoroughly, and completely submerged it to ensure no air pockets.

 

[PABonsai]

Apologies... didn't know that was "standard info" for these forums

It isn't "standard info". It's relevant info.

Roots were worked, yes, taken from a nursery and into substrate...

Yes but did you prune any? Less roots=less water uptake=shriveled foliage.

 

[wanderingHP]

About 1/4 of the cotoneaster (less than I expected to) and about 1/3 of the snow rose

 

[wanderingHP]

And it's been raining quite a lot. ALSO the substrate has never fully dried out yet. (not overwatering, but due to the rain and such...just hasn't happened. Been SLIGHTLY moist when watered the one day, and then rain has taken care of the rest...) but it does dry out a bit and drain well. Not sitting in water or anything from what I can tell. (no weird smells from the draining to signify rot of any kind, though that would have been quick..)

 

[Shibui]

It should be well into the growing season for these plants in your region. That means you have removed some of the roots that support actively growing shoots, leaves, flowers and fruit. It is natural for the plant to compensate by shedding something to balance the new water supply with use. That's why some are asking how much roots you removed while repotting.
I would normally do repotting a little earlier - before the trees really start to grow or maybe a bit later in summer when growth slows again. At those times there is less stress and the trees usually manage after root pruning without showing problems.
The good news is that both these are tough species and should survive this. Just keep the soil a bit on the damp side rather than dry until they start to look a bit better.
If, for some reason, these don't recover put it down as a learning experience and research timing a little more before trying again.

 

[wanderingHP]

It should be well into the growing season for these plants in your region. That means you have removed some of the roots that support actively growing shoots, leaves, flowers and fruit. It is natural for the plant to compensate by shedding something to balance the new water supply with use. That's why some are asking how much roots you removed while repotting.
I would normally do repotting a little earlier - before the trees really start to grow or maybe a bit later in summer when growth slows again. At those times there is less stress and the trees usually manage after root pruning without showing problems.
The good news is that both these are tough species and should survive this. Just keep the soil a bit on the damp side rather than dry until they start to look a bit better.
If, for some reason, these don't recover put it down as a learning experience and research timing a little more before trying again.

Thanks,

I understand why I'm being asked about the roots, yea. 1/4 the cotoneaster, 1/3 the snow rose. And yea, this is the tail end of spring (Dec 20th is the official first day of summer here). I know I SHOULD have done all this earlier, but I did not have necessary tools (or anything really...difficult finding supplies where I'm at now. Took awhile).

Thank you though for the explanation. I may understand it all in theory, but I overlook things still. And I did not really consider how you put things. It was in "full gear" and I basically cut it short at full momentum...now it's adjusting and recovering. Ok. I guess I just wasn't expecting to see such a dramatic visual difference within 24 hours (that's how it was...fist 5 days, same basically, then the shriveled leaves and such on the 6th morning).

And yea...if they don't survive, they'll be dying on my ledge for awhile. I have the space, and the time, so I hand planned on keeping any and all plants "until the end" as a way to "watch them die" (lack of better words) and learn from it. Visual learner here, and seeing it happen over time (while knowing/having an idea of what I did wrong) helps me visualize the possible outcomes

Thanks.

 

[Shibui]

And yea...if they don't survive, they'll be dying on my ledge for awhile. I have the space, and the time, so I hand planned on keeping any and all plants "until the end" as a way to "watch them die" (lack of better words) and learn from it.

Don't give up hope for a few months at least. I have had trees drop all leaves and look quite dead for a month or 2 then suddenly produce a full crop of new leaves and continue to grow as if nothing had happened. Some species I would hesitate to hope but these 2 are resilient enough to cope.

 

[leatherback]

Your cotoneaster, if kept moist and out of drying winds, should recover and start budding out in a few weeks.
Happy to see you get simlar root-cause analysis as on one of those other forums where I ran into your question.

 

[wanderingHP]

Great! Thank you both for your replies... I have no first hand experience with any tree "from scratch" (lack of better words )

So it's good to get some feedback. I felt I should see some "dying off" as a result of everything, but wasn't sure to what extent (and such a difference over a 24 hour window).

I removed them from the rain though, water them as I should, and place them in the in the sun for the sunny parts (6hrs total, lately, and at least half of that "overcast-ish"). They both appear to be doing a bit better already. I keep hearing the "it's hard to kill a cotoneaster" pitch, so I'm a bit reassured that mine's actually OK and just "adjusting" to things now. I was told the snow rose was a bit temperamental, though, in regards to moving about (even small amounts) but at this point, leaving it where it was (exposed the whole time) was not working, so I'm going to give this a go for awhile. I work from home, so I'll be around 90% of the time to handle things if there's sudden change in weather.

So taking all advice here, and definitely going to "leave it be" for a couple of months. It IS only the end of spring here after all. Plenty of time for them to recover before it gets "cold" (for here).

~Thanks!

 

[rockm]

Great! Thank you both for your replies... I have no first hand experience with any tree "from scratch" (lack of better words )

So it's good to get some feedback. I felt I should see some "dying off" as a result of everything, but wasn't sure to what extent (and such a difference over a 24 hour window).

I removed them from the rain though, water them as I should, and place them in the in the sun for the sunny parts (6hrs total, lately, and at least half of that "overcast-ish"). They both appear to be doing a bit better already. I keep hearing the "it's hard to kill a cotoneaster" pitch, so I'm a bit reassured that mine's actually OK and just "adjusting" to things now. I was told the snow rose was a bit temperamental, though, in regards to moving about (even small amounts) but at this point, leaving it where it was (exposed the whole time) was not working, so I'm going to give this a go for awhile. I work from home, so I'll be around 90% of the time to handle things if there's sudden change in weather.

So taking all advice here, and definitely going to "leave it be" for a couple of months. It IS only the end of spring here after all. Plenty of time for them to recover before it gets "cold" (for here).

~Thanks!

It would be a lot easier to help you if you'd post your geographic location in your title info that appears to the left of your posts...

 

[wanderingHP]

It would be a lot easier to help you if you'd post your geographic location in your title info that appears to the left of your posts...

Noted, thanks... This got feedback on two forums, and I must have overlooked where I put certain information. One of them said I was in Ecuador, tail end of spring in the mountains (not along the coast or amazonia). But yea, noted. I'll be sure to include such information in the future.

 

[leatherback]

You can actually include it on your profile. See what most users have just below the picture?

 

[Boscology]

About 1/4 of the cotoneaster (less than I expected to) and about 1/3 of the snow rose.

And yea, I watered it thoroughly, and completely submerged it to ensure no air pockets.

Wiring your tree firmly into the pot after you have worked and dislodged the entire root structure has always seemed pretty important to recovery in my experience, I would try to let the substrate dry out occasionally, many people would recommend for any tree re potted to be kept in shaded sun until vigor returns.

Those are two really great beginner trees and tolerate some abuse so I think you will be headed in the right direction.

 

[JoeH]

You can actually include it on your profile. See what most users have just below the picture?

that is such a common miss for new members maybe it should be required to be filled out before approval?