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Matt_The_Mann

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Just to be clear, for coast redwood if I had a specimen quality tree or even just a big trunk, I would winter in a greenhouse or coldframe into the 40s F and summer under shade cloth with misting and possibly even a fan for air movement. I'm still 50/50 whether I'll take a coast redwood back if we move to the Midwest.
I'm picking up what you're putting down. I've come to learn the sequoia will probably do better but I'm still going to experiment with the coast even at the risk of being heartbroken if it doesn't make it.
 

Bonsai Nut

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Ok so we have the three redwood species :) There are only three and no more...

Coast redwood... likes it temperate and moist. Occasional freezes but nothing crazy. Really important is humidity in the air - foliage will burn in heat or dry. In your area I would think the cold would be the primary inhibitor.

Dawn redwood... a deciduous tree so don't freak out when it drops foliage in the fall. A little heartier than coast redwood - can take more cold and doesn't need as much moisture in the air.

Giant sequoia... the beast - will grow in a wide range of conditions and zones - even though limited in its natural habitat. It grows as far north as Norway and Sweden and can tolerate deep cold. The one thing it CANNOT tolerate is drought. It has to have water for its roots in the summer. It will thrive in southern cal if planted in a valley that stays at least moist... but complete dryness will kill it. Rhode Island it will grow like a weed.

Here is a photo of a Giant Sequoia growing in Bristol RI (planted in 1955):

ReverandtreeRI.JPG
 
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sorce

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I think it got burned from sitting too close to the bird feeder if that's a thing?

Looks like Eastern Red Cedar, J. Virginia, J.Crack!

Mine got thin like that from mites.

Probly be the same if it is common name common J.

Bird turds is good.

Sorce
 

KiwiPlantGuy

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Ok so we have the three redwood species :) There are only three and no more...

Coast redwood... likes it temperate and moist. Occasional freezes but nothing crazy. Really important is humidity in the air - foliage will burn in heat or dry. In your area I would think the cold would be the primary inhibitor.

Dawn redwood... a deciduous tree so don't freak out when it drops foliage in the fall. A little heartier than coast redwood - can take more cold and doesn't need as much moisture in the air.

Giant sequoia... the beast - will grow in a wide range of conditions and zones - even though limited in its natural habitat. It grows as far north as Norway and Sweden and can tolerate deep cold. The one thing it CANNOT tolerate is drought. It has to have water for its roots in the summer. It will thrive in southern cal if planted in a valley that stays at least moist... but complete dryness will kill it. Rhode Island it will grow like a weed.

Here is a photo of a Giant Sequoia growing in Bristol RI (planted in 1955):

View attachment 160758

Hi BonsaiNut,
Hoping you or others can help me out with understanding this "over-wintering" thing you guys talk about all the time. Unsure of my ZONE that you guys talk about for my country. -5C up to 35C degrees. And one snowfall once every few years. We get frosts to -5C very regularly ( up to 80 days out of 180 days of year including early and late frosts etc).

I realise that when you get a lot of snow that maybe the Dawn Redwood or the Coastal Redwood may have difficulties surviving.

Given the information above, and that I have Dawn,Coastal, and giant Redwoods seedlings in 3 litre pots all winter. They froze, thawed, etc all winter long and none are anymore than 1 foot etc. All have survived. I can show photos if need be. I am unsure what the degrees F it is at -5C, just don't understand the problem of this thread.

Why is there confusion over the "over-wintering" of these trees? Or is it the snow problem?
Charles
 

coh

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Well, there's cold...and there's COLD.

-5 C = 23 F. Around here, we can go long stretches (up to a couple of weeks) with temps that stay below that level, and we often get as cold as -10 to -15 F (roughly -25 C) once or twice a winter. Add in winds that may be gusting to 40+ mph when it's that cold and you might be able to see why there are potential issues with over-wintering.

Dawn redwood is very cold tolerant, I have a number of them in the ground and they have no problems with our climate. I don't know what the lower limit is for cold for a potted specimen. Snow is not a problem for them, we average about 100" a winter. In fact, a good snow cover can help insulate the trees from the extreme cold we get.

Giant sequoia survives in the ground in upstate NY in a few places, but I've read that they are susceptible to cold winds when young. I lost one that I planted in the ground, it never woke up after its first winter. I did not protect it from our harsh cold winds. May try again.

Coast redwood would almost certainly not survive one of our winters...don't know how much cold it can actually take but probably a night or two at -5 C would be tolerated (and your experience seems to support that).
 

KiwiPlantGuy

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And I sometimes get down to 20 or 30F.below zero here.
For weeks to a month or more. We saw 37 below 2 years ago.
My trees stay outside frozen solid for months.
Like bricks frozen to the ground.

Hi M Frary,
It seems like my 23F is not that cold. But I knew that lol.
I think I understand the over wintering thing a bit better. I guess my -10C and below would be death and you can get way worse.

Thanks to all for the explanations
Charles
 

jeanluc83

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Welcome!

It is nice to see someone from my neck of the woods.

It would be worthwhile to join a club if you can. There are a couple of active bonsai clubs in CT that I know of. I'm not too sure what is active in RI.

If I remember correct there are several Dawn redwood and Giant sequoia planted in Boston commons so they will grow at least in the costal areas of the New England.

The hard part with winters here are the wild swings in temperature. It is common to get a 60° rainy day followed by a couple of days in the single digits a day back to the 50°s then repeat.

Good luck and say hi to Taylor for me;).
 

gallina1594

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Costal redwoods will not survive harsh winter's, they grow in a temprate rainforest climate, which very rarely gets sub 0 temps
 

rockm

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I'm picking up what you're putting down. I've come to learn the sequoia will probably do better but I'm still going to experiment with the coast even at the risk of being heartbroken if it doesn't make it.
Since you're apparently on the coast, you might have success with Sequoia. There are several in-ground Sequoia of note in your state.
https://www.giant-sequoia.com/gallery/usa/rhode-island/
HOWEVER, East Coast winters are not California winters. In ground trees are not containerized trees and if you're growing them out in the ground and planning on transferring them to pots, they will be a lot more vulnerable to cold in the winter. I wouldn't be all that excited about using this species in the east. I looked into Sequoia and Coast Redwood a while back as bonsai material. They are "iffy" here in Va. Zone 7. A former curator of the National Arboretum's bonsai collections told me that both species are a crap shoot as bonsai in this region, unless you have a cold greenhouse that stays in the 25-35 F degree range all winter. That is how the National Arb overwinters its Redwood bonsai.
redwood.jpg

I would also note that while the Dawn Redwood is in the same family as the Redwood and Sequoia, its growth habits are more similar to another relative the bald cypress. Dawn Redwood is inferior to Bald Cypress as bonsai as it tends to be coarser in growth and character than Bald Cypress. If you're after a species that is bulletproof as bonsai in your area and is related to the Left Coast Redwood and Sequoia, IMO Bald Cypress is a more than qualified option.
https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/shirley/app1.htm
 

Matt_The_Mann

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A former curator of the National Arboretum's bonsai collections told me that both species are a crap shoot as bonsai in this region, unless you have a cold greenhouse that stays in the 25-35 F degree range all winter.
I would also note that while the Dawn Redwood is in the same family as the Redwood and Sequoia, its growth habits are more similar to another relative the bald cypress. Dawn Redwood is inferior to Bald Cypress as bonsai as it tends to be coarser in growth and character than Bald Cypress. If you're after a species that is bulletproof as bonsai in your area and is related to the Left Coast Redwood and Sequoia, IMO Bald Cypress is a more than qualified option.
https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/shirley/app1.htm
I would like to build a green house that I could keep warm over the winter though that's not on the radar as of yet. The giant sequoia is in the ground in a sunny area of my yard and I will attempt to keep the coast alive in a pot but as I mentioned, I wont be heartbroken if it doesn't make it. I have also begun to look into more suitable species' for bonsai, the Bald cypress being the main contender.
 

Matt_The_Mann

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Update: Giant sequoia doing well in the ground. Trunk has doubled in diameter since planting one month ago (3/16 -> 3/8), I have high hopes for that one. Coast redwood ended up in the ground as well, didn't seem to be too happy being potted and seems to be doing better. Just starting to have cold mornings up here so I insulated the bases with some hay to keep the young roots protected a little bit. As always, any advice is welcome
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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I think you have the right idea, Bald Cypress is the easier to use stand in for a ''redwood''.

Quite honestly, the foliage of a Sequoiadendron gigantea - Giant Sequoia - foliage looks rather like a juniper. Why not style a Shimpaku juniper to mimic a Sequoia. For shimpaku you will have to train it from a young age to have a straight trunk. Or any of the more upright juniper species. Yes there is the cache of pointing to a small tree and be able to announce "that is a giant sequoia", but for a more convincing image, a juniper is a good stand in for a sequoia, Junipers are the ''silly putty'' of the bonsai world.

I have a dawn redwood forest, and it survives my winters, zone 5, roughly -25 C or -17 F as the coldest one or two nights a year, average mid winter night temp is about +10 F or - 12 C. The pots are set on the ground, sheltered a bit, but not entirely from wind, exposed to snow. They come back just fine, no loss of fine branches. So far branching is coarse, each compound leaf ends up representing a fine branch. Looks pretty good, but not sure how well I can keep it shaped, it wants to grow aggressively. Dawn redwood is a very rapid growing tree when given enough water and sun.
 
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