New trees listed

[Cadillactaste]

A long while back actually, it is where I got those tiny pots for Crystal some time ago and quite a few plants along the way

Grimmy

Good for you...it's a good source to have.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

One more point to this- the Kishu and Shimpaku Brian talks about in his article even he describes how the Shimpaku "balls up like a Kishu, but that is how Brent labeled it" so he is rolling with that.. IOW, even Evergreen Gardenworks and the expert Grimmy wanted to ask for verification cannot clearly tell the difference between Kishu and Shimpaku,

I don't mean to beat a dead horse but to take it even one step further- let's notice that Brent has only chosen to post pics of two- and Itoigawa and the one he is calling the classic Shimpaku, no pics to show the difference between Kishu and Shimpaku? Odd? Again, I am no expert on the subject of identifying them but it is not for lack of trying... and after reading all the available information I can find I will repeat- Kishu and Itoigawa ARE SHIMPAKU, so the listing is correct. Further I have yet to see any description of how Kishu actually differs from "classic Shimpaku" that makes identifying one over the other possible. I would certainly love it if someone could post pics with noticeable variations between the two and some identifiable data on how to tell with certainty... until such time I will continue to list all the Shimpaku I sell as simply SHIMPAKU, and I feel I have sufficiently reinforced my reasons for doing so.

That said- with such a minute difference between Shimpaku or Kishu- if one even exists which again I have yet to see evidence of- WHY DOES IT MATTER? That should have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you want to buy this tree! If you want one that has a nice little trunk, has the branches set and it read to be refined to something better, this is a good price for one... if you weren't really interested and just wanted to stir something up? Mission accomplished... thanks for putting more eyes on it for us!

Eric, I've tried to stay out of this thread, but you are conflating my article and Brent's description. Yes, Kishu is very similar to Shimpaku, but your rant is a hypocritical. You state Brent and I cannot tell the difference, while I have illustrated the difference in the article you are disparaging and screenshoting. You claim you're no expert, while you're arguing there is no noticeable difference.

Let it roll, or do the research and become an expert; but ranting from both sides of the fence does nothing to help your online seller reputation, and isn't helping the star you've hitched your little wagon to.

FWIW, and I told Grimmy the same, I trust John and have no reason to doubt his assertion. The photos aren't good enough to say for sure, but nothing about them would make me say it's not Shimpaku.

 

[Eric Group]

Eric, I've tried to stay out of this thread, but you are conflating my article and Brent's description. Yes, Kishu is very similar to Shimpaku, but your rant is a hypocritical. You state Brent and I cannot tell the difference, while I have illustrated the difference in the article you are disparaging and screenshoting. You claim you're no expert, while you're arguing there is no noticeable difference.

Let it roll, or do the research and become an expert; but ranting from both sides of the fence does nothing to help your online seller reputation, and isn't helping the star you've hitched your little wagon to.

FWIW, and I told Grimmy the same, I trust John and have no reason to doubt his assertion. The photos aren't good enough to say for sure, but nothing about them would make me say it's not Shimpaku.

Well it was not my intent to disparage your article. I only brought it up at all because Grinmy said he wanted your opinion- my point about it was your quote about the foliage on the Shimpaku balling up like Kishu... as I said, I have read a LOT about the subject but the information out there is conflicting. I am not talking out of both sides of my mouth, I am quoting from multiple sources that all say different things.

If I offended you I am sorry it wasn't my goal to disparage your or Brent, I was referencing you as experts and pointing out that even to the experts it is not easy to tell the difference, certainly not from photos!

 

[Eric Group]

It is not nonsense John... It was a question, a pre-sale question. It was not unreasonable for me to expect a exact answer from you(eggspurt) or Eric(respected). There is sometimes difficulty distinguishing between Kishu and Shimpaku when/how they have been trimmed. They both are similar but one has a fuller mature foliage and darker. If you or Eric simply provided a picture of one similar in size untrimmed instead of this volley of BS my question would have been answered with the courtesy - not sporadic defense based on internet knowledge. Hell, a simple "I don't know, here is a better picture"...

Thanks anyways -

Grimmy



Every plant I bought from Eric was in excellent condition, good quality, and I was able to identify all when they showed mature foliage. I also have a single Itoigawa juniper he kindly sent me some time ago that is a joy to watch grow. I was not thrilled with them not being tagged/marked but it all worked out.
Not certain about why you would even bring that up John - I just had a simple question...

Grimmy

I am happy to provide close ups Grimmy and I was just trying to further the conversation not insult you- or Brian- or anyone for that matter. Sorry if it came off that way- hard to tell intent from written text I suppose. I can be a smart ass but always intend it to be funny not rude- Regardless, it's a cool little tree and well worth the start price!

I just posted it here in the hopes someone I "know" might get it...

 

[BeebsBonsai]

Also listed on FB, but on the Bonsai Auctions page, is this chunky Cork bark Elm! Another tree from Mr. @johng - this one has a hefty 1.5"++ trunk, stands around 18" tall from dirt to top of the tree and has a great overall shape and feel to it. The pot is a large mica bowl shaped pot with rivets...
View attachment 156953
Check them out- both are a great deal!!

The old bark on that elm! whoooo it's really a thing of beauty

 

[M. Frary]

Is it possible the tree in question is a foemina?

 

[jriddell88]

Copy this thread over to the twisted trees thread , is this one worth 75$ because it was Johns did he just say that?

 

[GrimLore]

Regardless, it's a cool little tree and well worth the start price!

No worries, was planning to get another 20 - 30 smaller rooted from you again this Spring if available. Here it is getting a little late in the season to acclimate Southern plants for Winter. When I get them in the Spring I can be certain they go into the big chill healthy and strong.
Seems to me that and that Elm should be pretty fast sellers though.

Grimmy

 

[KeithE]

Understood but Itoigawa, Kishu, and Shimpaku junipers are not different terms but different plants from different areas. Those are not "terms" but a specific species with a rich long history and more important different growth habits. All three are, in their own ways far different.

I respect you and your years - I just want to know what it is Eric is selling for you. Why? I have purchased two dozen or so from him in the past and although they were and are great plants none were true Shimpaku. That is ok and I understand the "old" way of grouping them but I prefer to know with absolute certainty what I grow. Again, why? I am very familiar with all three and prefer to use Shimpaku for distribution and training here. No other reasons...

Grimmy

Grim -
Just curious why you do not want Kishu or Itoigawa? There are large variances even within the named variations. Do you have pictures of the not 'true' Shinpaku? The tree in question does not look like Kish or Ito, but could easily be a mild version of either as they are all the Shinpaku.

 

[Giga]

Is it possible the tree in question is a foemina?

Godzilla


Carry on....

 

[GrimLore]

Just curious why you do not want Kishu or Itoigawa?

I enjoy all three but up here Shimpaku display a rich deep color and a tighter foliage then Kishu. The difference is subtle but there. To me historically it is the most interesting for many reasons. Itoigawa is also very nice but far different in growth and habit - nice bright foliage to break up an otherwise green bench. None are bad but all have a "place" for me and my use.
In particular I have done some group and one on one trainings here. I am not having groups anymore but have a nice guest room and a few times a year we have company for 2-3 days where people bring plants, kids, playstations, etc... and have fun. I like to send people home with at least a couple plants but always a Shimpaku to keep the plant in existence.

Grimmy

 

[Eric Group]

The old bark on that elm! whoooo it's really a thing of beauty

Auction ends tonight! . I think it is only going for $100 right now!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Understood but Itoigawa, Kishu, and Shimpaku junipers are not different terms but different plants from different areas.

Just to confirm... all three cultivars are the same species. They are ALL shimpaku junipers. Kishu and Itoigawa are simply the shimpaku junipers that come from those locations - and have subtle, but different, appearance. Also, depending upon environmental conditions, age of plant, etc, it can sometimes be very difficult to determine the difference between cultivars - particularly if you are simply observing one plant by itself without being able to compare it to other cultivars that have been growing in the same conditions. I have two itoigawa that look quite different (to me) next to my kishu and standard shimpaku. But the difference is not immediately apparent unless you spend a lot of time with junipers.

It is very similar to how the Japanese prefer "Mikawa" Japanese black pines. Mikawa is not a different species - but rather Japanese black pines from the Mikawa region that are known for having deeply fissured and attractive plating bark.