New Trees

[JBP_85]

Hi Everyone,
I just acquired some new trees and figured I’d share them with the group. @cbroad mentioned that Meehans Miniatures in Maryland was in my area so I went with them and ordered a Dawn Redwood, Trident Maple, and a Bald Cypress. Once I am able to more freely travel I plan on going to see @johng for another Cypress. I ordered them from Meehans on Tuesday and they arrived today. They were very well packaged and seem to be in great shape. I’d be interested to hear your input on these trees. Particularly the Redwood, it has a whole trident thing going on up top and I think I’ll need to choose a new leader of those options or do a chop deeper down the trunk.

Thanks as Always,
-J

 

[leatherback]

Congrats!

What are your plans?

 

[cbroad]

The next step is to decide how large of a finished tree you want. Your next course of action depends on this, if you want a mame sized tree you could start wiring and pruning, but anything larger than that, you'll need to let them grow and gain trunk girth.

I would let them get much larger personally. If this is what you want, I would anticipate a late winter/early spring repot into a larger container, one of those nursery 3 gallon or 5 gallon pots should be fine. Or you could build a more shallower container from wood (or use a 10 or 15 gallon nursery pot, cut down to around 8" tall) and start working on a flat nebari while allowing more horizontal root growth (this is what I would do).

There really isn't much need to start pruning anything off right now, let all of that growth drive more growth and thickening of the trunk. More than likely, anything you see now will be pruned off as you build your tree from the ground up (literally). You'll probably do multiple trunk chops throughout their lives, and all of the branches will be replaced when it's time to start building primaries and secondaries. When you repot them, it is ok to plant them at an angle to get some movement started down low and to use some wire to direct the trunk in the direction you desire. Get a plan together on what kind of tree you want, maybe even draw a sketch so you have some clear goals and direction.

So for now, I would repot into larger containers, keep them watered and fertilized, and just let them grow.

I've began with many of those sized starters from Meehan's. They are small, but the species you've chosen are fast growers and will gain considerable trunk caliper in their 1st year if repotted into a larger container. About a month ago, I cut down a 25' trident that I had allowed to escape its pot. I have only had it for 3 or 4 years, and started out as a pencil thick cutting like yours.

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[JBP_85]

The next step is to decide how large of a finished tree you want. Your next course of action depends on this, if you want a mame sized tree you could start wiring and pruning, but anything larger than that, you'll need to let them grow and gain trunk girth.

I would let them get much larger personally. If this is what you want, I would anticipate a late winter/early spring repot into a larger container, one of those nursery 3 gallon or 5 gallon pots should be fine. Or you could build a more shallower container from wood (or use a 10 or 15 gallon nursery pot, cut down to around 8" tall) and start working on a flat nebari while allowing more horizontal root growth (this is what I would do).

There really isn't much need to start pruning anything off right now, let all of that growth drive more growth and thickening of the trunk. More than likely, anything you see now will be pruned off as you build your tree from the ground up (literally). You'll probably do multiple trunk chops throughout their lives, and all of the branches will be replaced when it's time to start building primaries and secondaries. When you repot them, it is ok to plant them at an angle to get some movement started down low and to use some wire to direct the trunk in the direction you desire. Get a plan together on what kind of tree you want, maybe even draw a sketch so you have some clear goals and direction.

So for now, I would repot into larger containers, keep them watered and fertilized, and just let them grow.

I've began with many of those sized starters from Meehan's. They are small, but the species you've chosen are fast growers and will gain considerable trunk caliper in their 1st year if repotted into a larger container. About a month ago, I cut down a 25' trident that I had allowed to escape its pot. I have only had it for 3 or 4 years, and started out as a pencil thick cutting like yours.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Thanks for your advice! I am definitely going to be following it. I have been looking at progressions (I added some links to some images of my favorites below) for all these species and am planning on doing some sketching over the weekend which I’ll share here. I’ll also be looking at the repotting discussions and reading up on procedures. Is there a certain soil type or blend that would work well or that you would recommend? I know each of these species have their own ideal conditions but I don’t have any experience with any types of potting mix aside from miracle grow type stuff.

Trident Maple by Walter Pall
Dawn Redwood
Bald Cypress by bonsaimirai

 

[cbroad]

Is there a certain soil type or blend that would work well or that you would recommend?

Everybody has their favorite type that works well for them, so opinions will vary. What I personally use (for growing out phase, not trees confined to a small pot) is a 50/50 mix of perlite and potting soil, and sometimes I'll throw in a few scoops of turface.

I like this mix for a few reasons: the components are cheap and readily available, it drains well and avoids compaction, and it also has some water holding capacity. This soil works well for our area with our heat and humidity, and I (usually) don't have to water every day. If you want the the soil to hold more water, add more potting soil. If you want it to be more free draining, add more perlite.

Ideally, your soil mix will have a good balance of water holding capacity and air filled porosity; enough water for the roots to use, but also enough oxygen to not suffocate the roots.

I highly recommend looking in the sites Resource section, there's a great article by Markycott about soils. It will answer many questions you'll have about what makes a soil mix good for bonsai and then you can make a mix for your specific needs.

EDIT:
The article is titled 'Introductory Soil Physics'

 

[LittleDingus]

Thanks for your advice! I am definitely going to be following it. I have been looking at progressions (I added some links to some images of my favorites below) for all these species and am planning on doing some sketching over the weekend which I’ll share here. I’ll also be looking at the repotting discussions and reading up on procedures. Is there a certain soil type or blend that would work well or that you would recommend? I know each of these species have their own ideal conditions but I don’t have any experience with any types of potting mix aside from miracle grow type stuff.

Trident Maple by Walter Pall
Dawn Redwood
Bald Cypress by bonsaimirai

<sarcasm>
Please don't style your redwood like that! Please, please, please...Dawn redwood branches do not sag! They lose their leaves in the winter so there is no sagging due to the weight of snow on their folliage. They look rediculous styled like that with no leaves! If you want a tree that looks like that get a spruce
</sarcasm>

I'm just pulling your leg. It's your tree, style it as you wish

The dawn and baldy are basically interchangeable. The cypress can literally grow underwater (roots ball...not leaves) which the redwood won't tolerate...but the redwood can tolerate a lot of water when growing. Give it enough water and it will outgrow the cypress if just barely. I grow mine out in NAPA 8822...oil dry. It's really diatomacous earth. It's relatively cheap and holds up well. I even reuse it after a good wash and thorough drying. Save the good bonsai soils for when they move into pots.

<sarcasm>
...and honestly...please don't style a redwood like that...
</sarcasm>

 

[JBP_85]

<sarcasm>
Please don't style your redwood like that! Please, please, please...Dawn redwood branches do not sag! They lose their leaves in the winter so there is no sagging due to the weight of snow on their folliage. They look rediculous styled like that with no leaves! If you want a tree that looks like that get a spruce
</sarcasm>

I'm just pulling your leg. It's your tree, style it as you wish

The dawn and baldy are basically interchangeable. The cypress can literally grow underwater (roots ball...not leaves) which the redwood won't tolerate...but the redwood can tolerate a lot of water when growing. Give it enough water and it will outgrow the cypress if just barely. I grow mine out in NAPA 8822...oil dry. It's really diatomacous earth. It's relatively cheap and holds up well. I even reuse it after a good wash and thorough drying. Save the good bonsai soils for when they move into pots.

<sarcasm>
...and honestly...please don't style a redwood like that...
</sarcasm>

Actually, you raise a good point that I had not considered about the Redwood. I'll look at some defoliated trees and see what looks more natural. Thanks for pointing that out to me and for the soil recommendation!

 

[LittleDingus]

Actually, you raise a good point that I had not considered about the Redwood. I'll look at some defoliated trees and see what looks more natural. Thanks for pointing that out to me and for the soil recommendation!

Do grow your trees to your liking and not mine Redwoods happen to be some of my favorite trees...dawn redwoods in particular. I'd love to be able to grow a bonsai with their characteristic arm pits! But alas, bonsai don't have the girth for them to form...especially with the customary grow the branches last approach

I've seen a couple styled as you linked, and they look ridiculous when bare...my opinion, but I'm sticking to it As an alternative, I'll point out this baldy (dawns and baldys are basically interchangeable):

BALD CYPRESS

This is a bald cypress I purchased from Martin Sweeny last year at the Winter Silhouette Expo. The material was grown from a cutting. This tree appealed to me because of its small size, good trunk movement and excellent nebari. Most of these BC trees seen as bonsai are collected and large to...

www.bonsainut.com

I've got a 2 year old dawn redwood I'm inclined to start styling this direction in the spring myself. It's still not how these trees grow naturally, but the winter silhouette is amazing! And many trees are known to have weeping cultivars...I'm not aware of a weeping dawn redwood, but there is a weeping form of sequoia that I own.

Do put that dawn and baldy in at least a 3 gallon grow bag. 5 gallon filled part way (to keep the roots horizontal) would be even better. Do that, and water them sufficiently in full sun and they should triple in size in the next year

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

For a generalized bonsai tree, majority of award winning trees have trunk diameter to overall height ratio of 1:10 to 1:1 with 1:5 thru 1:4 being most common. This means for a 20 inch tall bonsai, the diameter of the trunk should be 4 inches to 5 inches diameter. For a slender forest image, the 20 inch tall tree could have a diameter of only 2 inches. For a fat, ancient look, diameter and height could be near equal ( sumo style).

Bald cypress and dawn redwood, if used for naturalistic styles, have fairly wide, butressed bases. Trident can be used for just about any style, they are botanical silly putty.

It is important that every time you repot, you work on the root system, to create a shallow radial root system with roots arranged like spokes of a wheel.