New Trident Maples (Acer buergerianum)

JBP_85

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Hello Everyone,
I’ve been a long time lurker of this forum and am excited to be in a position to finally join the discussion. I’ve been interested in this hobby for some time but have held off on acquiring trees until I was in a position to be able to responsibly participate and dedicate time to it. After much reading I decided to start out with Trident Maples. I made this decision based on reading that they are resilient trees and a good starting point for beginners.
Yesterday my first two trees arrived in the mail. I acquired them from Matt Ouwinga at Kaede Bonsai. I made this decision based on a recommendation I saw on this forum and because the nursery is just up the road in Maryland and the climate is generally the same. They arrived extremely well packaged and seem to be in great shape.

I have looked at a lot of progression photos of Tridents and have a desire to do a Root over rock with one tree and a slanting style with the other. With this said I have seen a lot of postings on how to proceed and as with all things there seems to be a number of ways to go about this. I do have some general questions I’m hoping some experienced Trident wranglers will be able to assist with.

1) I’ve read that mid winter is a good time to repot Tridents. The average temp this week is around 50f. With nighttime temps dropping into the mid 20s. The trees are currently in 2” pots and I currently have them in my unheated garage. Is it safe to move them into larger 1 gallon pots at this time or should I let them be for now and wait it out through winter and repot in March before Spring returns?

2) I’ve seen a lot of different methods for starting root over rock maples on this forum and on YouTube. I’d be interested to hear what method has worked best for others and get an opinion on if this is something I should be doing right now with these young trees?

3) If repotting at this point is doable what soil type should i be looking at? Unfortunately, ground planting isn’t an option for me. Should I be using a bonsai soil at this phase of development or should I be using a regular potting soil (I’ve seen both used in my research). My inclination is to use a boon mix of bonsai soil but I’d like to hear from others on this.

4) What is the best way to achieve the slanting growth style? Is this achieved best through wiring the tree or should I just pot the tree at the desired angle when I repot?

I’m attaching a photo of the trees for reference and labeled them as trees A and B. Tree A appears to be slightly thicker than B and I was planning on choosing it for the root over rock style and use tree B for the slanting style. I’d be interested to get your thoughts and opinion on the trees.

My apologies for the lengthy post but I want to make the best decisions for these trees. I look forward to hearing from you all.

Cheers,
-J
 

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leatherback

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Welcome. I am about to start some root over rock tridents from seedlings I have standing around. So will see what recommendations you get.

I plan on doing it later in winter. Roots directly against the rock. Cover with a bit of soil and wrap the tring with eiter foil or alu foil. THen plant the whole thing in a big pot with substrate, probably regular coarse granulars.
 

JBP_85

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Thanks for the response! My main goal right now is to do no harm lol. I think I’ll follow your lead and wait until later in the season before doing anything just yet. If nothing else it will let me do some more research on the root over rock methods and find some good rocks. In regards to planting the slanting style tree (tree B). I have seen a lot of posts on how to develop good surface roots. It seems like most people seem to use a tile or something like that under the tree to create those. Is this something you have any experience with and if so any pointers? I don’t have any tile handy but thought of maybe using some old wood or even an aluminum pie pan with a hole punched in it. Do you think I should wire these (in particular tree B) now or should I be holding off until I repot? Thanks again and sorry if some of these questions are silly.
 

Orion_metalhead

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Tridents are tough. I found mine to not like full sun in dead summer here in 7b, and that they are quite apically dominant so keeping the apex in check helps with strengthening lower branches. They take well to many techniques.
 

Shibui

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mid 20s F nightime temps are not excessive for trident maple. That's about what we get here at night through mid winter. My tridents are quite happy to be root pruned and repotted from mid winter through to bud burst in spring but closer to spring is definitely better for the plants. Doing them now will not speed up anything for the trees. If you are only doing it to satisfy your urges I would advise develop some patience and do what is best for the trees not your urges.
I use the same bonsai mix in all my grow pots but that's just for convenience. Standard potting mix is quite good for larger, deeper pots through the growing phases. Repot with more open bonsai mix when you move the trees into shallower bonsai pots.
Larger pots will give you much better growth rates at this stage. Smaller bonsai pots will slow things down dramatically so be prepared for a 10-20 year project if you choose smaller pots now.

Both trees are similar so no need to make choices yet. I would do the Root over rock first and pick the tree that suits best for the rock and then develop the other one as the leaning tree. Not every tree suits every rock. When I'm doing ROR I start with a bunch of trunks and a bunch of rocks and look for the best matches among them. Starting with one tree and one rock is bound to result in disappointment and poor results unless you are very, very lucky. ROR may look easy but in actual fact getting a good match between trunk, roots and rock is much more challenging. After that getting the branches that match the trunk/root/rock combination adds even more difficulty so don't underestimate the challenge you are facing.
There are a few threads outlining my methods for ROR on the Shibui Bonsai site. This is one post - developing root over rock tridents but search for some others too for even more tips and pics.
As you have found there are many other methods and opinions. You are free to try any you wish.

Your leaning tree needs to have roots at the correct angle for the leaning trunk. If you are lucky one of your trees ,may already have some roots in the correct places just by pruning off some of the roots that don't comply with leaning the trunk over. I prune trident roots really hard for the first couple of times to get the root system I want. Do not waste your time by just putting the existing root system into a larger pot. Small messy roots only grow into larger messy roots so a real good sort out right at the start will pay back in the end.
It is rare to use all the trunk of a seedling in the final bonsai. Regular grow and prune cycles to get the shape you want and good taper seem to be the best and quickest way to achieve a good bonsai so you will probably only use the lower 1/3 of the existing trunks so concentrate on the lowest parts for now and see the upper trunks as sacrifice for later chopping.
 

JBP_85

Yamadori
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mid 20s F nightime temps are not excessive for trident maple. That's about what we get here at night through mid winter. My tridents are quite happy to be root pruned and repotted from mid winter through to bud burst in spring but closer to spring is definitely better for the plants. Doing them now will not speed up anything for the trees. If you are only doing it to satisfy your urges I would advise develop some patience and do what is best for the trees not your urges.
I use the same bonsai mix in all my grow pots but that's just for convenience. Standard potting mix is quite good for larger, deeper pots through the growing phases. Repot with more open bonsai mix when you move the trees into shallower bonsai pots.
Larger pots will give you much better growth rates at this stage. Smaller bonsai pots will slow things down dramatically so be prepared for a 10-20 year project if you choose smaller pots now.

Both trees are similar so no need to make choices yet. I would do the Root over rock first and pick the tree that suits best for the rock and then develop the other one as the leaning tree. Not every tree suits every rock. When I'm doing ROR I start with a bunch of trunks and a bunch of rocks and look for the best matches among them. Starting with one tree and one rock is bound to result in disappointment and poor results unless you are very, very lucky. ROR may look easy but in actual fact getting a good match between trunk, roots and rock is much more challenging. After that getting the branches that match the trunk/root/rock combination adds even more difficulty so don't underestimate the challenge you are facing.
There are a few threads outlining my methods for ROR on the Shibui Bonsai site. This is one post - developing root over rock tridents but search for some others too for even more tips and pics.
As you have found there are many other methods and opinions. You are free to try any you wish.

Your leaning tree needs to have roots at the correct angle for the leaning trunk. If you are lucky one of your trees ,may already have some roots in the correct places just by pruning off some of the roots that don't comply with leaning the trunk over. I prune trident roots really hard for the first couple of times to get the root system I want. Do not waste your time by just putting the existing root system into a larger pot. Small messy roots only grow into larger messy roots so a real good sort out right at the start will pay back in the end.
It is rare to use all the trunk of a seedling in the final bonsai. Regular grow and prune cycles to get the shape you want and good taper seem to be the best and quickest way to achieve a good bonsai so you will probably only use the lower 1/3 of the existing trunks so concentrate on the lowest parts for now and see the upper trunks as sacrifice for later chopping.
Thanks for the detailed response, advice, and link to more resources! I have to admit when I first got the trees my mind was going 100mph on things I wanted to do. I see this hobby as a way to help deal with my impulse control and decision making skills. I’ll be waiting until closer to spring before doing anything with these little guys. In the mean time I’ll turn my mind to geology and rock collecting lol.
 
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