Newbie--help me with my indoor grow setup please!

[Aquaticjade]

This is my first time posting, so hello everyone! I am completely new to keeping "bonsais" but please to avoid offending anyone I will use that term loosely....in my situation I mean "tiny potted trees", as my purpose for these within my project is to completely ignore the artistic side. I'm planning on using these in November for a forest-style paludarium build. There are 6 'jacqueline hillier' dwarf elm. I have to keep these babies alive in my makeshift setup until then. I just got them last Wednesday, so 4 days ago. They did come with some yellowing/dead leaves and they shed about 10% of their leaves each during shipping. Since having them ive noticed a few of them are having yellowing/browning leaf tips. Can someone please tell me if this is due to shipping and acclimation or is there something wrong with my grow tub?

I have pebbles in the bottom with half inch of water acting as a giant humidity tray. I've been watering about every 2 days with the exception of one bonsai in the far right corner, for some reason it's soil keeps drying out while the other 5 are moist. The lights are set on an 8hr timer and they are in my attic so it's considerably warmer and more humid than the rest of my house (75-85F). When I plant them in my paludarium I'm just going to pull them out of the pots, brush off as much soil as I can, and plant them in akadama soil and cover with moss. I'm wondering if my lights are too bright? It's an aquatic plant light, but RGB full spectrum 3750 lumens 60 watts, color temperature 6500k.

Thank you for all help and advice, if you need more detailed pics let me know! I bought them on eastern leaf.

 

[Gatorade]

I’m pretty knew to so it seems you know more then me. I just know most bonsai like all trees do better outdoors. Those trees were most likely grown outdoors as well. So they probably just getting use to knew environment. I think ficus trees or tropicals might suit a paludarium better. But then again I’m new just wanted to try and help. Good luck

 

[sorce]

Home Depot type places started selling Elm Bonsai as "indoor", then some fool somewhere found he could in fact keep them alive indoors, so everyone jumped on the "yeah they can grow indoors" bandwagon, this person never returned with a good bonsai, but it is still thought to be a good idea.

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[MHBonsai]

What climate do you live in? Why do they need to stay inside? It’s almost certain that they would live better outdoors…

 

[penumbra]

I have only ever killed an elm tree once.
It was some years back and I tried to keep it inside.

 

[Paradox]

Probably not going to work. Elms are temperate species that need winter cold for dormancy besides the fact that they just wont do well indoors under artificial light. There are a few species that can tolerate that, elms are not one.

 

[Aquaticjade]

I am keeping them indoors because like I said in my post, I was intending on their permanent home to be a large temperate forest style paludarium. Meaning I need them to acclimate to indoor conditions anyways. Did anyone take note of the species I indicated? Is it possible this elm is hardier indoors than your typical Chinese or cork bark elm? Im not trying to discredit anyone as again I have no personal knowledge thus far....but eastern leaf described this elm in particular to be very hardy indoors or outdoors and was one of the more forgiving variety. If that's not the case then it's a shame somewhere would mislead people like this, it didn't break the bank but it still was a decent chunk on trees.

 

[penumbra]

You are setting yourself up for failure. If you want indoor plants you need tropical.
Unless you know something we Bonsai Nuts don't, Your plants are going to die if you keep them inside.

 

[Paradox]

Meaning I need them to acclimate to indoor conditions anyways.

This is like asking a tropical fish to acclimate to life in a lake in northern Canada. It cant and it wont.
You're asking a species to do something it can not do.

Did anyone take note of the species I indicated? Is it possible this elm is hardier indoors than your typical Chinese or cork bark elm? as again

I did note the species and specifically said that Elm is a temperate species that needs cold during the winter for dormancy. You will not be able to change its basic biology and physiology to not need that no matter how much you want to. So no its not better able to handle indoors than a species that CAN handle indoors like a tropical like penumbra stated.

If you want to create a forest that will be all indoors all the time, choose a species that can handle those conditions.

 

[Redwood Ryan]

I am keeping them indoors because like I said in my post, I was intending on their permanent home to be a large temperate forest style paludarium. Meaning I need them to acclimate to indoor conditions anyways. Did anyone take note of the species I indicated? Is it possible this elm is hardier indoors than your typical Chinese or cork bark elm? Im not trying to discredit anyone as again I have no personal knowledge thus far....but eastern leaf described this elm in particular to be very hardy indoors or outdoors and was one of the more forgiving variety. If that's not the case then it's a shame somewhere would mislead people like this, it didn't break the bank but it still was a decent chunk on trees.

This will not work. The trees will die. They cannot live indoors year round without any dormancy. Do you have a link to where Eastern Leaf said these would work indoors?

 

[Aquaticjade]

This will not work. The trees will die. They cannot live indoors year round without any dormancy. Do you have a link to where Eastern Leaf said these would work indoors?

'Jacqueline Hillier' Dwarf Elm

One of our more popular bonsai trees is the 'Jacqueline Hillier' Dwarf Elm Bonsai. The Dwarf Elm Bonsai Tree is a hardy tree. Pruning the Dwarf Elm Bonsai tree will continually produce fresh leaves to any shape you choose. This bonsai can be nurtured and repotted as it grows.

www.easternleaf.com

Under the description/care requirements

 

[Aquaticjade]

I was asking innocent questions out of genuine curiosity. I really don't appreciate the condescending tone I always see on forums and with a good bit of these replies here. It makes people who come seeking advice feel like they did something wrong by asking people with more experience for help. I literally said "i don't mean to discredit anyone as I have no personal knowledge" and then I get comments like this....

You are setting yourself up for failure. If you want indoor plants you need tropical.
Unless you know something we Bonsai Nuts don't, Your plants are going to die if you keep them inside.

 

[berzerkules]

I was asking innocent questions out of genuine curiosity. I really don't appreciate the condescending tone I always see on forums and with a good bit of these replies here. It makes people who come seeking advice feel like they did something wrong by asking people with more experience for help. I literally said "i don't mean to discredit anyone as I have no personal knowledge" and then I get comments like this....

I don't think anyone is trying to be condescending here. They are being realistic and speaking from combined decades of experience.

An experienced grower might have success growing indoors but they know the species they are working with and how to create an environment that is conducive to the health and survival of that species.

What you are attempting is difficult for professional growers and near impossible for beginners.

It takes a wise man to learn from his own mistakes, but an even wiser man to learn from others.

 

[Aquaticjade]

I don't think anyone is trying to be condescending here. They are being realistic and speaking from combined decades of experience.

An experienced grower might have success growing indoors but they know the species they are working with and how to create an environment that is conducive to the health and survival of that species.

What you are attempting is difficult for professional growers and near impossible for beginners.

It takes a wise man to learn from his own mistakes, but an even wiser man to learn from others.

I'm not disagreeing with any of you. I never typed those words or even inclined the idea which is why I'm irritated that I was getting backlash like I was. I'm upset because I was mislead by eastern leaf and am now stuck with over $100 worth of trees. So maybe the most helpful thing for me, is maybe you guys can give me some tips, advice with my setup, to give me a smidgen of a chance to have them live? They aren't a returnable item. You say near impossible but not impossible. Obviously I have nothing else to lose now so I would really really appreciate any pointers or advice on how I can make this work. I've only had them 4 days. Does it look like leaf burn to you? Are my lights too close and bright? Anything that would actually help?

 

[amcoffeegirl]

I have a few ficus that would work in a indoor set up. You could absolutely grow those inside with proper lighting. I also have brush cherry

(Eugenia myrtifolia)​

and premna. Schefflera will also grow indoors.
You will find out soon enough if your elms will tolerate it.

 

[Aquaticjade]

I have a few ficus that would work in a indoor set up. You could absolutely grow those inside with proper lighting. I also have brush cherry

(Eugenia myrtifolia)​

and premna. Schefflera will also grow indoors.
You will find out soon enough if your elms will tolerate it.
View attachment 398618

Will you look at my pictures and let me know what you think about the light? Is it too close to my trees? I'm trying to figure out if I am accidentally scorching them but don't really know how to tell leaf burn apart from other issues lol!

Edit: what kind of ficus? In case these really do die on me....unfortunately then I would need a plan b.

 

[amcoffeegirl]

I'm not disagreeing with any of you. I never typed those words or even inclined the idea which is why I'm irritated that I was getting backlash like I was. I'm upset because I was mislead by eastern leaf and am now stuck with over $100 worth of trees. So maybe the most helpful thing for me, is maybe you guys can give me some tips, advice with my setup, to give me a smidgen of a chance to have them live? They aren't a returnable item. You say near impossible but not impossible. Obviously I have nothing else to lose now so I would really really appreciate any pointers or advice on how I can make this work. I've only had them 4 days. Does it look like leaf burn to you? Are my lights too close and bright? Anything that would actually help?

The most helpful thing that you can do to try to keep these alive would be to contact a bonsai group in your area. If you have room outdoors to place them then that would be a good short term win. I started with growing in an apartment so I had no outdoor space.

 

[berzerkules]

Will you look at my pictures and let me know what you think about the light? Is it too close to my trees? I'm trying to figure out if I am accidentally scorching them but don't really know how to tell leaf burn apart from other issues lol!

Edit: what kind of ficus? In case these really do die on me....unfortunately then I would need a plan b.

One of the benefits of led lights is they produce very little heat and you can place them extremely close to plants. You could probably place them directly on your plants with no problem.

 

[amcoffeegirl]

Will you look at my pictures and let me know what you think about the light? Is it too close to my trees? I'm trying to figure out if I am accidentally scorching them but don't really know how to tell leaf burn apart from other issues lol!

Edit: what kind of ficus? In case these really do die on me....unfortunately then I would need a plan b.

Unfortunately I am not familiar with elm so I am unable to diagnose an issue. - sorry about that.
These are ficus salicaria aka willow leaf ficus.
I also have ficus burrt davyi.
here is a link to an expert indoor grower- Jerry Meislik.

Articles on Bonsai Culture and Care

And his main page

The Art of Bonsai - Jerry Meislik

This site is devoted to the art of bonsai. Through pictures and written material I hope to spread the appreciation of this art form.

www.bonsaihunk.us

I hope this helps.

 

[amcoffeegirl]

There are many people online who say indoor elm growing is possible. It may be possible for someone with elm knowledge to grow these indoors. My experience is no, it is not possible but I only tried it once and I had no experience with elm.

Indoor Elm Tree Care Updated

Indoor Elm tree care including watering, light, soil, fertilizer, propagation, pot, over winter, leaf drop, and pests.

lilysindoorjungle.blogspot.com