Newbie! Help with Juniper

Diagoras

Seedling
Messages
6
Reaction score
4
Hi all,
My name is Leon and I am relatively new to Bonsai. My only experience is killing a spruce a couple of years back, but to my defense I live in the wrong climate (Tel Aviv, Israel - Mediterranean climate, very hot and humid).
Yesterday I bought the juniper bush from a bonsai nursery. I was told since juniper is very common in our climate and hardy, it is the correct choice for me. You can see the specimen in the attached photos.
When I chose it because of the interesting trunk and many branches (options for design). I also thought the fact it had some berries was a good sign. I learned it is not such a good sign this morning while reading online sources. I will remove all the berries ASAP.
How would you start? What would you do with the design if you were me? I am not sure what should go, or how far back I should prune the branches. Any kind of help would be appreciated as I am a complete novice.
I was also told to water it a bit every day (as the climate is very warm), but I find the water goes straight through. This led me to believe the pot is crammed with roots. I am not sure how to proceed... I know I am not supposed to re-pot until winter dormancy (over here: February), but it seems to need some soil in there.
Help!
 

Attachments

  • DSC_0055.JPG
    DSC_0055.JPG
    404.9 KB · Views: 95
  • DSC_0056.JPG
    DSC_0056.JPG
    311.8 KB · Views: 96
  • DSC_0062.JPG
    DSC_0062.JPG
    407.6 KB · Views: 95

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
32,908
Reaction score
45,579
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
Welcome to Crazy Leon!

If the water runs straight through....
It is Probly not packed with roots...

If it runs off the side, and stalls on top, then goes through, it is likely packed with roots and may need to be repotted..(proper season there?)

Nice material!

Take your time!

Sorce
 

M. Frary

Bonsai Godzilla
Messages
14,307
Reaction score
22,116
Location
Mio Michigan
USDA Zone
4
I learned it is not such a good sign this morning while reading online sources. I will remove all the berries ASAP
Why aren't the berries a good sign.
It tells me the tree is healthy.
I've got a juniper that has berries on it and it's perfectly healthy.
 

Diagoras

Seedling
Messages
6
Reaction score
4
Thank you Sorce! As your signature says, I can't argue with you. I looked carefully and you are right, it's not a packed roots problem (or any problem for that matter). As for repotting, we are also on the Northern Hemisphere (so seasons are the same), only our winter is so mild (and summer so harsh) that plants don't go into dormancy until much later on the calendar. I will wait until January in the earliest with the repotting, may even February.
Hi M. Frary, I read that some junipers produce berries when distressed (as a kind of abandon-ship-last-resort-reproduction-mechanism), however I am sure it may also simply be a regular reproductive cycle. In the nursery I saw it had new buds and berries, so, like you said, I assumed health. I did remove the berries so that it won't "waste" its resources on them and focus on growth and health while I try to clear it a bit and figure out what to keep and what to trim.
Much of my design challenge is that it has a very interesting "swirling" branch structure and they are not always one above the other. I am not even sure what's the "front" and what's the "back"...
 

petegreg

Masterpiece
Messages
2,781
Reaction score
4,079
Location
Slovakia
USDA Zone
6a
Why aren't the berries a good sign.
It tells me the tree is healthy.
I've got a juniper that has berries on it and it's perfectly healthy.
It's a good sign definitely, but they are often removed like all fruit not to weaken the tree.
 

Tieball

Masterpiece
Messages
3,099
Reaction score
3,174
Location
Michigan. 6a
USDA Zone
6a
I don't know the Mediterranean climate that well....but....generally....Junipers grow outdoors. Is your tree just indoors for the photo session?

I would examine the tree on various sides and pencil or marker draw trunk and branch lines on paper....drawing existing trunks and branches that might be interesting. With just one front view I might come up with 4-5 different options. Do a number of "what if I chose these branches" and eliminated the others in the drawing view.....before actual cutting. Stick drawings work well for early thinking. Some branches will early on show they need to be removed. Before cutting I now explore several options....because the best options may be hidden....and I often miss a development opportunity....and then wish I didn't cut something so quickly.

Nice grow boxes in the background. Is this an indoor/outdoor room so trees aren't out in the more intense heat?

Example stick.... image.jpeg
 

Tieball

Masterpiece
Messages
3,099
Reaction score
3,174
Location
Michigan. 6a
USDA Zone
6a
I find it easier a lot of times to photograph a tree from several angles and simple draw on a faded view of the tree....sort of like tracing the desired trunk and branches on a particular view. Unique views of the future tree come to life.
 

Diagoras

Seedling
Messages
6
Reaction score
4
I don't know the Mediterranean climate that well....but....generally....Junipers grow outdoors. Is your tree just indoors for the photo session?

....
Nice grow boxes in the background. Is this an indoor/outdoor room so trees aren't out in the more intense heat?

Example stick.... View attachment 117750

Thank you for the input! I will do all that you suggested and plan before any cutting.
I also planned on making a rough model from my son's play-doh (at least of the major branches) and then play with the options a bit (removing and pushing them around).
As for the semi-closed balcony, it IS the place I intended to keep it, as it is the best I have (urban apartment). The windows are huge (ceiling to floor, wall to wall) and are kept open all day long (otherwise it becomes like a sauna). It has eastern exposure in a desert-Mediterranean climate (Latitude 32.0853° N) so even though there are palm trees in front of it, it has enough sun and ventilation to keep a miniature orange tree alive and roses (repeatedly) blooming. I was told by the person at the nursery that if I can make roses bloom in my balcony I can also grow a juniper there. I hope this is true and not just a sales pitch. o_O
 

abqjoe

Chumono
Messages
751
Reaction score
1,451
Location
Albuquerque NM
Yeah Junipers like to be outdoors and they don't like to be over watered. Some advice that was given to me here in regards to watering was to use a wood skewer. Stick it in the soil and before you water pull it out and examine the current moisture level. Water it if it needs watering and don't if it doesn't. Learning how to water and keeping it alive is going to be more important right now than styling:)
 

Diagoras

Seedling
Messages
6
Reaction score
4
Yeah Junipers like to be outdoors and they don't like to be over watered. Some advice that was given to me here in regards to watering was to use a wood skewer. Stick it in the soil and before you water pull it out and examine the current moisture level. Water it if it needs watering and don't if it doesn't. Learning how to water and keeping it alive is going to be more important right now than styling:)
I was told to water it daily, but I rebelled and didn't since it sounded like a dangerous generalization. Instead I stuck my finger in the soil and felt it was pretty moist this morning so I just left it alone and let it be for now.
What an awesome idea to use a simple wood skewer! Gives a far better idea of what is happening deeper in the pot; will definitely use that one!
 

Tieball

Masterpiece
Messages
3,099
Reaction score
3,174
Location
Michigan. 6a
USDA Zone
6a
Thank you for the input! I will do all that you suggested and plan before any cutting.
I also planned on making a rough model from my son's play-doh (at least of the major branches) and then play with the options a bit (removing and pushing them around).
As for the semi-closed balcony, it IS the place I intended to keep it, as it is the best I have (urban apartment). The windows are huge (ceiling to floor, wall to wall) and are kept open all day long (otherwise it becomes like a sauna). It has eastern exposure in a desert-Mediterranean climate (Latitude 32.0853° N) so even though there are palm trees in front of it, it has enough sun and ventilation to keep a miniature orange tree alive and roses (repeatedly) blooming. I was told by the person at the nursery that if I can make roses bloom in my balcony I can also grow a juniper there. I hope this is true and not just a sales pitch. o_O
Fabulous balcony......I could see me relaxing in the room very easily....a great place for a nap. Naps are good.
 

Diagoras

Seedling
Messages
6
Reaction score
4
I looked at my juniper a lot and also cleaned dead foliage to get a better look and let in some light and air. I did not prune or touch anything else.
I drew it; I worked with the photos like you suggested; I even built the play doh model. Every time I thought I was sure of the "right" design, I sat to look at the actual tree and realized something new that changed my mind. I think I can do this perpetually.
Originally I thought to make the purple branch as a kind of continuation of the trunk and a "main feature" with the sidekick Red (see "original unrealistic plan" picture). Then I found an old crack between the trunk and the Purple (see "branches" picture) I also noticed that Red has a lot of secondary branches and many many new buds, so maybe it deserves to be the focus as a semi-cascade... now I am not sure any more. There is also a bulge on Red, that I am not sure is such a good thing to ignore.
I marked in yellow all the branches I am pretty sure can go. All save two are tiny very straight and perpendicular sticks the seem to obstruct light and my imagination as well.
Thoughts?
 

Attachments

  • Branches.JPG
    Branches.JPG
    339.3 KB · Views: 53
  • Original Unrealistic Plan.JPG
    Original Unrealistic Plan.JPG
    330.5 KB · Views: 48

Tieball

Masterpiece
Messages
3,099
Reaction score
3,174
Location
Michigan. 6a
USDA Zone
6a
Ha!......Play-Dough.....Sent me searching paper files I've kept......reminded me of my all time favorite cartoon page. I attached a photo of the cartoon page. I seem to feel like that a lot of times.

Here's a collection of my thoughts.

Lines. Good ideas. Keep searching options and ideas. I've found that putting a tree down/away for awhile helps prompt a fresh idea and thought. Sort of like clearing the brain cache memory.

Cascade....semi-cascade.....I lean more toward windswept styles....juniper trees that lean a particular direction from some forceful elements. There's a lot of creative emotion in a windswept. I changed one view of your photo by tilting the tree windswept to the left....planting the treat on a new angle...I tried to roughly demonstrate a pot position. I tend to like trees that are swept to the right but I can't see what you've got to work with if that was an idea. Just my thoughts......I thought the windswept created more excitement and emotion.....More than a quiet upright.

I think you're right on the yellow removal. Those seem to just be in the way with the much thicker trunks. You may wish to just stripe the bark off those branches first (only when you're really ready for the plunge). I think there's some hope inside the white line I sketched over your note page. You have the 3D tree in front of you though.

I had a juniper once that needed a lot of branch removal. I didn't just cut branches off though. I knew, I thought, they needed to go. I just stripped them clean and left them on the tree while I continued to study ideas. A few of those branches were shortened, broken and kept as part of the final style.

Be sure to check all sorts of possibilities.....then Google Juniper Bonsai. Interesting idea generation. There's all sorts of examples in Images....even a few that utilize a right side branch like you have on the tree.....good creative palette to explore.

Just my thoughts.....hopefully not an intrusion on your creativity.
 

Attachments

  • image.jpeg
    image.jpeg
    355.8 KB · Views: 37
  • image.jpeg
    image.jpeg
    359.8 KB · Views: 38
  • image.jpeg
    image.jpeg
    190 KB · Views: 38

Diagoras

Seedling
Messages
6
Reaction score
4
Ha!......Play-Dough.....Sent me searching paper files I've kept......reminded me of my all time favorite cartoon page. I attached a photo of the cartoon page. I seem to feel like that a lot of times.
.
Awesome cartoon :)


Cascade....semi-cascade.....I lean more toward windswept styles....juniper trees that lean a particular direction from some forceful elements. There's a lot of creative emotion in a windswept. I changed one view of your photo by tilting the tree windswept to the left....
Exactly! English is not my first language, "windswept" is what I was going for in the design you see in my "original unrealistic" photo - only my windswept was to the right rather than to the left. You captured what I find beautiful in many junipers, the drama created by the apparent motion.
Originally (see original unrealistic plan photo) I thought of using the curve in the trunk to make it appear as if wind has beaten a left-growing tree into submission in the opposite direction (right). However the red branch cannot be turned to the right... (at best if can become a broken branch that did not yield, via jin).
Your tree tilting solution is wonderful, however I don't think there is enough trunk to allow for it: the trunk continues into the soil pretty much in the same angle as you see - and very close to the position you see in the photo, there is no curve or leeway as per what you added in black in your design (thank you for that!). If there was, it would have been the best solution ever.
I will try and tilt the training pot and see if something similar can be achieved in another direction.
I really appreciate all creative input, especially from people who know how to look at trees and have experience - so thanks a lot for the input! I will do as per your suggestion and not cut the larger branches off, but rather clean them to allow for some possible Jin in the future, I can always remove them later. I have no qualms about intrusions on creativity. I looked at online photos of beautiful junipers (and saved the pictures of the closest specimens in a brain-storming folder). Many of them are indeed with similar trunks.
I think I am developing a bonsai-phobia... the more I read and research the more afraid I am to do anything as this is my first tree, and I am quite afraid of killing it, especially when the specimen I got looks old and gnarly, it feels like I can only make it less natural looking with my choices (but then again bonsai is not the art of living small shrubs natural).
 

IrishCrow

Mame
Messages
166
Reaction score
119
Location
Wilkes Barre PA (Northeast)
USDA Zone
6
Wow that's a great plant. Lots of different things you cab do with it. I am also new to bonsai. From what I've learned, you have to take your time. Oh and read read read. And you will read things that contradict one another. That's when ya come here and ask and you'll get the answer. Lots of great people here. Junipers don't like to be over watered but be careful in your area. If the water goes right through the soil it will dry up quicker and you live in a high humidity area. That will also evaporate and dry out the tree. Yes junipers don't like to be over watered but they hate being bone dry even more. You should check the soil twice a day and make sure it dosnt dry up through out the day. Good luck!! :)
 
Top Bottom