Nishiki Pine Needle Discoloration

Eliasw

Seed
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Location
SoCal
USDA Zone
10
Hi my fellow BonsaiNuts. I've been a lurker to this forum for about a year and three months since that's when I started to do anything associated with bonsai. I have a problem regarding a White Pine. I purchased this pine about a month from now and it was sent underneath my carport for two days before moving it in direct sun and then was watered just a bit. The tree was shipped to me btw and the seller repotted it in March. Two weeks ago I noticed that the top started to show signs of color lost. I honestly don't know why. Maybe stress from the delivery here, the delivery only took 2 days. I know how fragile white pines are but I didn't know they were this fragile. I'll hate to lose this tree.
 

Attachments

  • 20200903_100912.jpg
    20200903_100912.jpg
    155.6 KB · Views: 30
  • 20200903_100907.jpg
    20200903_100907.jpg
    137.6 KB · Views: 31
  • 20200903_100922.jpg
    20200903_100922.jpg
    159.3 KB · Views: 32
  • 20200903_100918.jpg
    20200903_100918.jpg
    198 KB · Views: 32
  • 20200903_100903.jpg
    20200903_100903.jpg
    192 KB · Views: 29
  • 20200903_100901.jpg
    20200903_100901.jpg
    224.7 KB · Views: 25
  • 20200903_100855.jpg
    20200903_100855.jpg
    211.3 KB · Views: 28
  • 20200903_100850.jpg
    20200903_100850.jpg
    192.1 KB · Views: 27

Wires_Guy_wires

Masterpiece
Messages
3,558
Reaction score
5,582
Location
Netherlands
Now, I'm no pine expert at all. I own just 8 types of pines and no japanese white pines. However, I see some holes on the upper part of that trunk that make me wonder what's going on.
I don't know where you're from but the label indicates that it might be sacramento in the US.
Given the history of where you kept this tree, I'm wondering if it's possibly termites or some other wood-loving insect that made those holes.

Needle removal can leave some bumps and weird patterns, but these look like actual holes.

Since root issues tend to express themselves either all over the plant at the same time or from the bottom upwards, I think it's worth inspecting what's happening up close if I were you.
I don't know anything about termites, because we don't have those here but I remember people telling me you can hear them chew on wood. But then again, the same goes for most beetle larvae.
Do you see any sawdust anywhere?
 

MaciekA

Seedling
Messages
16
Reaction score
16
Location
Northwest Oregon
USDA Zone
8
If you read Jonas Dupuich's blog over at Bonsai Tonight you'll often see him write about being extra careful with trunk chops in pines, to ensure that an interruption in sap flow doesn't cause the abandonment of branches close to the chop. It's possible that you have a healthy pine (evidenced by lower branches) that has abandoned some branches proximate to an overenthusiastic trunk chop.
 

Mike Corazzi

Omono
Messages
1,691
Reaction score
1,851
Location
Lincoln, CA
USDA Zone
9b
Maybe it's nothing more than doing an impression of my Scots pine in CA heat.

🤪
 

Leo in N E Illinois

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
9,178
Reaction score
17,253
Location
on the IL-WI border, a mile from ''da Lake''
USDA Zone
5b
@Eliasw Location matters, please edit your profile to include the nearest large city and state. California is BIG, and the climate varies wildly depending on where you are at. In order to get good advice, it helps others if you know approximately where you live.

First, I do not believe this is a Japanese white pine, Pinus parviflora. Or a white pine of any type. White pines have needles in bundles of 5. It appears you have needles in bundles of 2. The Japanese black pine, Pinus thunbergii is a two needle pine. The cultivar name, or designation 'Nishiki' is one that is common for Japanese black pine, but not used at all for Japanese white pines. Japanese black pines of the 'Nishiki' type are cork bark pines, they develop a thick corky bark that quickly adds a look of age to otherwise relatively young trunks and branches. As a group, they tend to be considerably more difficult to care for. They do not need anything different from normal horticulture for Japanese black pine, but the cork bark varieties, 'Nishiki' and others, have much less tolerance for less than ideal conditions and are not as resilient, they do not "bounce back" from insults the way the normal form of the species will do.

Your 'Nishiki' should be in full sun, sunrise to sunset, or if weather is extremely hot, over 100 F or over 38 C the tree should be in the shade from noon on. So full sun for "normal" weather, afternoon shade when temps over 38 C. (100 F).

To me the parts that are browning, are dead. I do not see them coming back. The key is to keep the lower 2 branches, which look healthy, to keep them healthy. You potting media looks fairly "organic". It looks like it hold a lot of water. Overwatering could have killed the top part of the tree. Cork bark pines tend to be fairly compartmentalized, one branch leads to one root. If the root that supports the top of tree died due to overwatering, the upper part of the tree will die. Overwatering tends to affect the newest growth first. This would be my guess.

So check your tree daily to see if it needs water. Only water when the tree approaches dryness.

That's my 2 cents for the moment. Does this help?
 

Brian Van Fleet

Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Messages
12,152
Reaction score
34,394
Location
B’ham, AL
USDA Zone
8A
Agree with Leo. Watch the water and keep those lower 2 buds happy. The top is gone. Corkbark JBP are fickle and this happens. Often it’s due to pruning or snapping the branch wiring or moving it around. Hard to say why, but the future of this tree is in those lower 2 branches. If it makes you feel any better, I’ve been growing corkers for 12+ years and still have this happen. My infatuation with them has waned to ambivalence.😜
 

Eliasw

Seed
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Location
SoCal
USDA Zone
10
Thanks guys for responding. I just came from outside and done a few things to figure out the situation and doing some tips that you guys left.
Now, I'm no pine expert at all. I own just 8 types of pines and no japanese white pines. However, I see some holes on the upper part of that trunk that make me wonder what's going on.
Given the history of where you kept this tree, I'm wondering if it's possibly termites or some other wood-loving insect that made those holes.
I didn't think of termites or any other insects.

Needle removal can leave some bumps and weird patterns, but these look like actual holes.[\quote]
I was thinking the same thing. I just plucked a dead needle from it this morning and it made a very identical hole pattern. Those weird hole like features the tree currently have might just be from removal of needles.

I don't know anything about termites, because we don't have those here but I remember people telling me you can hear them chew on wood. But then again, the same goes for most beetle larvae.
Do you see any sawdust anywhere?
No, when I received it I don't remember seeing saw dust but then again the soil was kinda loose. A month has almost gone by and no saw at all, not on the branches nor the trunk or dirt. So yeah, I went outside and just looked at it for 20 minutes visually and just trying to hear anything from it, nothing weird was seen or heard.

If you read Jonas Dupuich's blog over at Bonsai Tonight you'll often see him write about being extra careful with trunk chops in pines, to ensure that an interruption in sap flow doesn't cause the abandonment of branches close to the chop. It's possible that you have a healthy pine (evidenced by lower branches) that has abandoned some branches proximate to an overenthusiastic trunk chop.
I've read quite a few of his blogs and they're quite informative. I don't believe the trunk was chopped but a lot of candles was removed. Maybe removing so many at once caused this problem? The new buds that I was excited about when I first received it was the first to die off and soon The whole top followed. The bottom half looks extremely healthy and thank God it is or I'll be looking at a very very series situation. Probably still looking at one.🤔
Maybe it's nothing more than doing an impression of my Scots pine in CA heat.

🤪
Hopefully both will recover
@Eliasw Location matters, please edit your profile to include the nearest large city and state. California is BIG, and the climate varies wildly depending on where you are at. In order to get good advice, it helps others if you know approximately where you live.

First, I do not believe this is a Japanese white pine, Pinus parviflora. Or a white pine of any type. White pines have needles in bundles of 5. It appears you have needles in bundles of 2. The Japanese black pine, Pinus thunbergii is a two needle pine. The cultivar name, or designation 'Nishiki' is one that is common for Japanese black pine, but not used at all for Japanese white pines. Japanese black pines of the 'Nishiki' type are cork bark pines, they develop a thick corky bark that quickly adds a look of age to otherwise relatively young trunks and branches. As a group, they tend to be considerably more difficult to care for. They do not need anything different from normal horticulture for Japanese black pine, but the cork bark varieties, 'Nishiki' and others, have much less tolerance for less than ideal conditions and are not as resilient, they do not "bounce back" from insults the way the normal form of the species will do.

Your 'Nishiki' should be in full sun, sunrise to sunset, or if weather is extremely hot, over 100 F or over 38 C the tree should be in the shade from noon on. So full sun for "normal" weather, afternoon shade when temps over 38 C. (100 F).

To me the parts that are browning, are dead. I do not see them coming back. The key is to keep the lower 2 branches, which look healthy, to keep them healthy. You potting media looks fairly "organic". It looks like it hold a lot of water. Overwatering could have killed the top part of the tree. Cork bark pines tend to be fairly compartmentalized, one branch leads to one root. If the root that supports the top of tree died due to overwatering, the upper part of the tree will die. Overwatering tends to affect the newest growth first. This would be my guess.

So check your tree daily to see if it needs water. Only water when the tree approaches dryness.

That's my 2 cents for the moment. Does this help?
Yes, your information was quite helpful. Thanks for clearifying to me on the types. The potting mix is very fast draining, Akadama, hyuga it looks like and some sort of heavy rock grit. When the plant first came to me the soil was really out of place so I added a very thin layer of mix from what I had at home, Akadama, some grit of my own, and maybe 10% of Organic, very little. California has been hot, hitting the tripple digits at times so yeah, the tree is placed under a shaded tree when 11am hits. And just a question, do these tree fare well on the ocean side? I'm no where near a beach, I was just wondering for personal intel.
So top will most likely not recover and keep the two lower branches under careful care, haha seems simple enough. Sucks because I wanted to use some those candles and try some graft in the future. Thanks again for your help.
Agree with Leo. Watch the water and keep those lower 2 buds happy. The top is gone. Corkbark JBP are fickle and this happens. Often it’s due to pruning or snapping the branch wiring or moving it around. Hard to say why, but the future of this tree is in those lower 2 branches. If it makes you feel any better, I’ve been growing corkers for 12+ years and still have this happen. My infatuation with them has waned to ambivalence.😜
I wish I really knew why and that's why I'm super baffle, I'm thinking the shipping, but I'm not even 50 percent sure on that. Like you said, it's hard to say why. Trust me, those two branches will be cuddled.
It does and doesn't make me feel better haha. Hearing someone else that has tones of experience happens to them, do I even stand a chance? Haha. What have I gotten myself into.[/Quote]
 

Similar threads

Top Bottom