No rain, hailstones

[Fabledabel]

Oh please....
I think what you mean to say is that YOU are totally totally perplexed to see that some individuals choose to think for themselves and not lap up the big govt bullshit every day.....and I understand why that's so perplexing to you....that's why our Men had to save you from the Nazis.
You're welcome.

I remember when liberals distrusted govt too.....hahaha! Commies.

Textbook ad hominem. I would expect no less

 

[just.wing.it]

Textbook ad hominem. I would expect no less

I've had too many talks with Alain to give a damn too much.
He is exactly like every leftist I've ever seen, they're mindless automatons without an original thought between them.

 

[Fabledabel]

I've had too many talks with Alain to give a damn too much.
He is exactly like every leftist I've ever seen, they're mindless automatons without an original thought between them.

Again. Wouldn't expect anything better. Real champions of thought all of you

 

[Forsoothe!]

It's such an asinine conversation that we dread having it. But fine, consider my arm twisted. Here is a previous post regarding this exact coversation. Sources and fully cited. Go ahead and view each cited resource and continue to deny.

https://www.reddit.com/r/climatechange/comments/akad36/_/ef31n3k

(From the article above):
"But you know it's not just the basic physics and the observation of correlation that is convincing, but most people don't seem to understand that there are physical fingerprints in the atmosphere that show us what is causing the warming. For instance did you know that while the troposphere is warming the stratosphere is actually cooling? This happens as a transient effect when a large amount of greenhouse gases are put into the atmosphere this blocks infrared radiation from reaching into the stratosphere, and so it cools. This effect has been observed and any other known source of temperature change would not have this result. If the Sun were the cause then all layers of the atmosphere would warm."

The above says that greenhouse gasses block the the only source of greenhouse heating. This is a poor restatement of the Gaia Hypothesis (Dr. James Lovelock), in which the amount of heating of the Earth surface and atmosphere is modified by clouds. It has always been so. As the Earth and atmosphere warms, more evaporation increases clouds. As the clouds increase, they block and/or reflect out to space, the infrared rays of the sun which cools the Earth surface and atmosphere. This transient, on-going process is continuous and relies on the volume of water on Earth and the energy provided by the sun's infrared rays. The difference between Mars and Earth is water. The only source of heating of the atmosphere and the surface of the Earth are the infrared rays of the sun. If you block the infrared rays of the sun, the Earth surface and atmosphere cools, the opposite of the greenhouse effect. This says that greenhouse gasses block the the only source of greenhouse heating. Does this work? Stand in direct sun on a partly-sunny day and feel the effects of a cloud passing between you and the sun. Does it get hotter, or cooler? Yes, greenhouse warming is part of the cycling between warming and cooling. It has always been so. Is this a source of concern? This is the engine of our atmosphere. It shouldn't be scary, it's working. Will the Earth continue to cycle between warmer and cooler over future eons? Yes, as long as the sun is there to provide the energy.

Is the sky falling? Only when it rains, and that's not scary either.

 

[Fabledabel]

The above says that greenhouse gasses block the the only source of greenhouse heating

First, your position is a bit confused, but I appreciate you finally reading what I posted (in part, but that's better than nothing). If you would have read it all, you may have come across the answer to your question.


Energy comes to earth via the sun. Most of this light is of the visible spectrum, about half of it is infrared. The energy that is shed by the earth is almost entirely infrared. Green house gasses such as CO2 don't absorb all types of light equally. In fact visible light goes right through Co2, as you probably know because the gas is invisible. It does however interact with infrared much more readily. THIS is the difference. The light coming in gets through, the energy being shed does not.

Also the cooling of the earth core is also a source of heat that is not the sun, so the sun is not the ONLY source of heat as you suggested. Just the most significant one.

 

[just.wing.it]

Again. Wouldn't expect anything better. Real champions of thought all of you

I'm glad I satisfy your expectations.

 

[just.wing.it]

First, your position is a bit confused, but I appreciate you finally reading what I posted (in part, but that's better than nothing). If you would have read it all, you may have come across the answer to your question.


Energy comes to earth via the sun. Most of this light is of the visible spectrum, about half of it is infrared. The energy that is shed by the earth is almost entirely infrared. Green house gasses such as CO2 don't absorb all types of light equally. In fact visible light goes right through Co2, as you probably know because the gas is invisible. It does however interact with infrared much more readily. THIS is the difference. The light coming in gets through, the energy being shed does not.

Also the cooling of the earth core is also a source of heat that is not the sun, so the sun is not the ONLY source of heat as you suggested. Just the most significant one.

Not refuting any of what you're saying here, just making my point clear.

AOC’s top aide admits Green New Deal about the economy, not climate

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s chief of staff recently admitted that the Green New Deal was not conceived as an effort to deal with climate change, but instead a “how-do-you-change-the-entire economy thing” -- a remark likely to fuel Republican claims that the deal is nothing more than a thinly...

www.foxnews.com

I picked fox because its on the top....but many outlets have been reporting this since yesterday..... and you don't have to be some kind of Genius to already have known this, all you have to do is know who the left is.

As I said before, it's not about the climate, it's about control. I am not on board. Count me out.

I would also venture to say that those who think they can stop the climate from changing are the climate change deniers, because they are denying that the climate changes naturally and has been forever, they blame mankind..... of course it has everything to do with the Sun.

 

[Fabledabel]

Not refuting any of what you're saying here, just making my point clear.

AOC’s top aide admits Green New Deal about the economy, not climate

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s chief of staff recently admitted that the Green New Deal was not conceived as an effort to deal with climate change, but instead a “how-do-you-change-the-entire economy thing” -- a remark likely to fuel Republican claims that the deal is nothing more than a thinly...

www.foxnews.com

I picked fox because its on the top....but many outlets have been reporting this since yesterday..... and you don't have to be some kind of Genius to already have known this, all you have to do is know who the left is.

As I said before, it's not about the climate, it's about control. I am not on board. Count me out.

I would also venture to say that those who think they can stop the climate from changing are the climate change deniers, because they are denying that the climate changes naturally and has been forever, they blame mankind..... of course it has everything to do with the Sun.

I'm not an American. I'm not here to debate American policy or motivations behind policy.

 

[just.wing.it]

I'm not an American. I'm not here to debate American policy or motivations behind policy.

That's what this entire discussion is about, not just American policy, globalist policy.
Paris Accords, all of the like.

 

[just.wing.it]

I'm not an American

Sorry for your luck.....

Alain knows full well that all this is about control.....not saving the earth.....they know better.

 

[Fabledabel]

Sorry for your luck.....

Alain knows full well that all this is about control.....not saving the earth.....they know better.

Ya I'll stick to talking to forsoothe about this. I posted a whole slew of cites and arguments. You haven't bothered to responded to a single one. Pretty standard though

 

[leatherback]

Odd to see that only a minority in the world thinks there is a debate about whether the climate is changing and the role humans play in it. Even more interesting that the majority of this minority are in a single country, a country with a leader who does everything to swing public opinion in a way so he makes more money

Just sayin'

 

[Forsoothe!]

First, your position is a bit confused, but I appreciate you finally reading what I posted (in part, but that's better than nothing). If you would have read it all, you may have come across the answer to your question.

Energy comes to earth via the sun. Most of this light is of the visible spectrum, about half of it is infrared. The energy that is shed by the earth is almost entirely infrared. Green house gasses such as CO2 don't absorb all types of light equally. In fact visible light goes right through Co2, as you probably know because the gas is invisible. It does however interact with infrared much more readily. THIS is the difference. The light coming in gets through, the energy being shed does not.

Also the cooling of the earth core is also a source of heat that is not the sun, so the sun is not the ONLY source of heat as you suggested. Just the most significant one.

I'm not a reading service. State your case, if you can. Don't give me Links that are anything more than confirmation of a concept in 25 words or less. I don't owe you the time it takes to read run-on opinions of the uninformed.

"The light coming in gets through, the energy being shed does not."

So what?

The heat radiated by the Earth's core is not significant to the atmosphere. Period. The contribution of greenhouse gasses from volcanoes is very significant.

You may now answer the question: Is the Earth and/or atmosphere warming or cooling?

 

[Fabledabel]

Don't give me Links that are anything more than confirmation of a concept in 25 words or less

Does each word also need to be less than 4 letters?

If I could really convince you of a concept like CLIMATE CHANGE in 25 words or less, don't you think there would be less of you old geezers by now? Either way, this has to be my favorite climate denier quote ever

Is the Earth and/or atmosphere warming or cooling?

You JUST quoted your answer but I'll say it again I guess. The atmosphere is chopped up into parts. The lower part, that's us, is heating up, while the upper part, not us, is cooling down "BUT FABLED," you say, "THIS IS A CONTRADICTION AT BEST!". Well Forsoothe, Iassure you it is not. The layers all do different things, and it's real complicated. I can't find any picture book links below 25 words to explain it to you, so I guess you'll have to take my word for it.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Does each word also need to be less than 4 letters?

If I could really convince you of a concept like CLIMATE CHANGE in 25 words or less, don't you think there would be less of you old geezers by now? Either way, this has to be my favorite climate denier quote ever





You JUST quoted your answer but I'll say it again I guess. The atmosphere is chopped up into parts. The lower part, that's us, is heating up, while the upper part, not us, is cooling down "BUT FABLED," you say, "THIS IS A CONTRADICTION AT BEST!". Well Forsoothe, Iassure you it is not. The layers all do different things, and it's real complicated. I can't find any picture book links below 25 words to explain it to you, so I guess you'll have to take my word for it.

So, finally, you have finally arrived at the best of all arguments: you speak with forked tongue out of both sides of your mouth! This way, people who are too stupid to recognize the incongruity of your argument will think that they don't understand it because they're too dumb. Those of us that demand fact-based reasoning will continue to see you for what you are: circus barkers, con-men and charlatans. Fortunately, most Americans don't want to be like European socialists sitting around waiting for the government to take care of things. We're not waiting for Godot...

You and AlainK are trolling for arguments, all having nothing to do with bonsai.

 

[Fabledabel]

So, finally, you have finally arrived at the best of all arguments: you speak with forked tongue out of both sides of your mouth! This way, people who are too stupid to recognize the incongruity of your argument will think that they don't understand it because they're too dumb. Those of us that demand fact-based reasoning will continue to see you for what you are: circus barkers, con-men and charlatans. Fortunately, most Americans don't want to be like European socialists sitting around waiting for the government to take care of things. We're not waiting for Godot...

You and AlainK are trolling for arguments, all having nothing to do with bonsai.

Lmao what are you talking about?? So incoherent. You asked me for a 25 word limit and you get mad when I can't explain a compilcated system. You don't have the brain power to have a legitimate debate with handicaps. The difference between me and you is I don't ignore sources that require reading. I know your old and confused by research, but it's not beyond you if you really, really try. or maybe it is, you sound kind of dense.

 

[leatherback]

I know your old and confused by research, but it's not beyond you if you really, really try. or maybe it is, you sound kind of dense.

TO understand, there is a need to want to understand. As before.. This really only is a debate in a few countries of the world, all of which have a highly polarized, politicized media system and leaders that are not in office to help the country, but rather to help line pockets of minorities.

 

[leatherback]

Those of us that demand fact-based reasoning

Right..
However, just because I can admit the system is too complex to grasp on a rainy Saturday afternoon, does not mean it is not happening. Interestingly, companies like shell predicted already half a century ago that large-scale burning of fossile fuel would have wide-spread climatic effects.

Fortunately, most Americans don't want to be like European socialists sitting around waiting for the government to take care of things.

Pff. Stop shitting on Europeans. Stick with the topic at hand and stop diluting your argument by insulting 750M people. Furthermore, do not pretend that you know what the majority of USA wants. You know what the people close to you want. You may know what comes out through news outlets (Which are highly politicized in USA and as such not an objective source of information). What I do know however is that on a wide spread range of measures on the quality of life, USA fails to provide for all.

Just because people in Europe feel that caring for your neighbours is a good thing, and ensuring everyone is fed and clothed and has a roof over their head is a basic right, does not mean "people sit around waiting for the government to take care of things". Take an interest, check some facts and realize that the USA is only great for a small part of the population.
Let me help you by sharing a site with some interesting facts, which of course, you are welcome to check.

The US has a lot of money, but it does not look like a developed country

The US and Lesotho are the only two countries in the world without paid maternity leave.

qz.com

 

[just.wing.it]

Ya I'll stick to talking to forsoothe about this. I posted a whole slew of cites and arguments. You haven't bothered to responded to a single one. Pretty standard though

You really don't understand what I'm saying at all do you.

I don't care about your links, it's not about climate, it's not about saving the Earth, it's not about pollution, it's not about cleaning up the airs and the waters and the lands....

It's about politics, it's about control. That's all.

Alain is one of their foot soldiers.
Globalist troll of the lowest order.
That's all I'm saying.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Right..
However, just because I can admit the system is too complex to grasp on a rainy Saturday afternoon, does not mean it is not happening. Interestingly, companies like shell predicted already half a century ago that large-scale burning of fossile fuel would have wide-spread climatic effects.

Pff. Stop shitting on Europeans. Stick with the topic at hand and stop diluting your argument by insulting 750M people. Furthermore, do not pretend that you know what the majority of USA wants. You know what the people close to you want. You may know what comes out through news outlets (Which are highly politicized in USA and as such not an objective source of information). What I do know however is that on a wide spread range of measures on the quality of life, USA fails to provide for all.

Just because people in Europe feel that caring for your neighbours is a good thing, and ensuring everyone is fed and clothed and has a roof over their head is a basic right, does not mean "people sit around waiting for the government to take care of things". Take an interest, check some facts and realize that the USA is only great for a small part of the population.
Let me help you by sharing a site with some interesting facts, which of course, you are welcome to check.

The US has a lot of money, but it does not look like a developed country

The US and Lesotho are the only two countries in the world without paid maternity leave.

qz.com

"What I do know however is that on a wide spread range of measures on the quality of life, USA fails to provide for all."

That's just exactly the attitude that the Conservatives in the US reject! We believe that you provide for yourself by the sweat of your brow. The old fashion idea of not leaving the education system prematurely, not living apart until you can afford to do so, not having babies until married, not marrying until you and your spouse are able to provide for yourselves, and working continuously in adult life at whatever you are qualified for and at whatever market wage that commands; those are all perameters of a successful life of a good citizen.

Contrast that with the kinds of people you find demonstrating in the streets. Demanding that someone else provide for them. Start with the minimum wage which artificially precludes unqualified people from working at all and increases the pressures to automate simple jobs. Ambitious young people still in High School used to work in those simple jobs at low wages part-time and during summer break. They learned early in life how to become part of a workforce and make the boss happy. They were the go-fers who were sent for coffee, or materials, or pushed a broom, or otherwise did the menial little tasks in shops and factories. When a real job opened up, they were first in line. They had proved they could come to work on-time dressed appropriately, follow instructions, learn new tasks, get along with others, and were ready for real jobs that paid real wages much earlier in life than those who spent their free time lollygagging. The old story of the ant and the grasshopper may go right over the heads of today's youth, thanks to Progressives. That is just one among the other fruits of social-justice warriors such as yourself.

"The US is also, with Lesotho, one of only two countries in the world that do not mandate paid maternity leave."

More of the same. A free lunch that someone else needs to pay for. Employers and employees have an opportunity to look at the hole left when someone gets a free vacation for having a baby. Each will be able to see just how necessary it was to have that person on the job. The employer can see if the the others can carry the load without the freeloader, or maybe he has to have a temporary worker do the job. Does the replacement do a better job? Can any goofball do the job? Does the company do just fine without the freeloader? What leverage will the freeloader have the next time they ask for a raise? Nothing is free, and nothing is without consequence. Do you want the boss to know that he doesn't really need you?

I daresay that the EU has their own problems to deal with, and that some residents don't think that they are well-provided for, too. You can deal with your problems, and we'll deal with ours. How are you doing complying with the goals of the Paris Accord? Are you comfortable with India and China using more coal as you are hog-tying yourself to unobtainable goals? Hmmm? Do you like pissing in the wind?

Does this have anything to do with bonsai?
While I'm at it, here's a Link I like!