Noob: Formal Upright Deciduous Cypress Question

MattGgator

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I've been stalking various forums, reading articles and book, and getting peoples' opinions for a while now. Yesterday I finally decided to pull the trigger and purchase my first bonsai. I picked this cypress out as it is fairly common to my location (central Florida), and apparently fairly hardy. My end goal is a formal upright form. It is very pleasing to my eye, and satisfies the need for order that my inner engineer cries out for. To that end, I picked out a starter that had a fairly straight trunk with a nice taper. One thing I didn't account for was the top, and how it was trimmed.

Do you think this is manageable? By that I mean, is it possible to create a smooth transition from where it was cut to where new growth can continue?20150215_101431.jpg
 

jk_lewis

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I don't see ANY taper. If I could see it photographed against a plain background from base to top, I might think better of it. As is . . . . ?
 

Cypress187

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If you want that top to heal and form a new apex and so have more taper you'll need to grow it in the ground again for a few years i think.
 

MattGgator

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I don't see ANY taper. If I could see it photographed against a plain background from base to top, I might think better of it. As is . . . . ?
I don't really appreciate your reply. It came across very condescending, and completely missed the question I asked. As a response to my first message here, I'm not even sure I want to be a part of a community that greets new people in such a manner. Thanks for nothing.

If you want that top to heal and form a new apex and so have more taper you'll need to grow it in the ground again for a few years i think.
Thank you Cypress for your insight, and helpful reply. I've been giving it some consideration and I guess this tree as it sits is not exactly formal upright material. Thank you again for your insight.
 

tmmason10

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It is hard to see the taper without a better picture. However, you have done the right thing for a first timer in buying a larger tree cut down to a smaller tree. You will have to carve down that Apex in time which is typical for these bald cypresses. Can you take a new picture for us?
 

sikadelic

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As mentioned above, there isnt much taper. I would chop very low and wire your highest shoot 90º upward from the trunk.
 

Bonsai Nut

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I don't think JKL was attacking you as a person, he was just stating a design point. You made a comment about buying the tree because of the taper, but your photo doesn't show any. It is hard to comment on your tree without a better photo.

Without a photo of the entire tree, someone might give you advice that they would change if they saw the whole tree. That cut might not work given the rest of the tree. You might want to cut it lower, use a different front, etc.

It is very difficult / almost impossible to make a seamless transition with a chopped cypress like yours. Think how long it would take to develop a new leader that would grow to the same width as the trunk, or how long it would take the scar to heal. If you don't want to spend decades developing your tree, you need to build the chop into the design - don't hide it or think in terms of a transition - think of it as an old tree that got struck by lighting or had a taller tree collapse into it or some similar natural catastrophe. I have seen very effective designs that used the "trunk chop" part of the tree as a dead trunk next to the new live apex, or you can hollow it out to make it look like a stump. This redwood bonsai, for example, was created out of a large redwood stump.

redwood.jpg

The dead stump was designed to look like a cliff that the live part of the redwood was growing on. It may be a little too surreal for some people, but you have to admire the unique design.
 

MattGgator

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My original question was not concerning the taper of my tree's trunk. Yes, it does exist, however slight it may be. But that isn't my concern. I was simply concerned about the formation of a new apex, or what I would have to do in order to make that happen.

As things currently stand I'm thinking the "lightning struck" look might be the most natural and easiest to achieve. Thank you all.
 

Cypress187

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Doesnt this lightning struck style conflict with you need for order :D
 

MattGgator

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It does. But being artistic is a helpful exercise that will help use a different part of my brain.
 

Bonsai Nut

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bald-cypress-bonsai-tree.jpg

Here's an example of a cypress that is going the "seamless transition" route. Can you tell where they chopped the trunk? It will take decades to make this a convincing bonsai... if ever.
 

jk_lewis

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jkl said:

I don't see ANY taper. If I could see it photographed against a plain background from base to top, I might think better of it. As is . . . . ?


I don't really appreciate your reply. It came across very condescending, and completely missed the question I asked. As a response to my first message here, I'm not even sure I want to be a part of a community that greets new people in such a manner. Thanks for nothing.

You are mis reading me. I may have ""missed" (or not answered) your specific question, but I was commenting on the tree, which -- from what I could see -- is likely totally unsuited for bonsai for many years to come. No animosity was intended; merely hoping to keep you from many frustrating hours trying to turn that into a decent bonsai.
 

MattGgator

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View attachment 67612

Here's an example of a cypress that is going the "seamless transition" route. Can you tell where they chopped the trunk? It will take decades to make this a convincing bonsai... if ever.

THAT is amazing! How are you achieving the transition? Carving, letting it grow, etc.?
 

Bonsai Nut

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THAT is amazing! How are you achieving the transition? Carving, letting it grow, etc.?

It is not my tree. I am glad you like it, however I was using it as an illustration of the decades of work you have ahead of you if you go this route. That tree has 20 more years of development before you won't see that trunk chop...

However it WILL get there. You just have to be really really patient. If you go the lighting route... you will be showing a tree in half the time (or less). One path is not better than another. It is always about trade-offs.
 

Si Nguyen

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I don't really appreciate your reply. It came across very condescending, and completely missed the question I asked. As a response to my first message here, I'm not even sure I want to be a part of a community that greets new people in such a manner. Thanks for nothing.

Welcome to BNut. Sincerely. But I don't think you're going like it here. JKL was in no way condescending to you. He's a pussy cat. But if that was bad to you, then you will cry when Smoke shows up.
 

sorce

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There's a post about a feller who cuts cypress tops 4 ways carves them and binds them to a point. Worth finding.

If you would have posted that pic sideways.....JKL would have attacked you!

It is true, without seeing the whole tree, making recommendations for it
could be quite detrimental to its progression. We, especially JKL, are not here for that!

From the looks of it, a rechop could be needed 3 maybe 6 feet down?
In which case, transitioning at that chop doesn't matter at all!

More pics, Cypress is like Meghan Trainer, or whatever her name is.

Sorce
 

mcpesq817

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This doesn't seem to be a very large tree, at least with respect to caliper at the chop site (maybe 2" or 3" at the most?). Bald Cypress put on growth and heal over chops very quickly. I don't think it would take very long to make a seamless transition at the chop site on this one.
 

sikadelic

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This doesn't seem to be a very large tree, at least with respect to caliper at the chop site (maybe 2" or 3" at the most?). Bald Cypress put on growth and heal over chops very quickly. I don't think it would take very long to make a seamless transition at the chop site on this one.
I tend to agree. I made a chop on a young tree last year and even though I didnt work it over for a smooth transition (a task for this year), the leader grew very quickly. If things melt off a bit tomorrow I will try to get a picture for you.
 
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