Noob question

[MacSpook]

Hi all
I've been a forum member for a few weeks now and have just been doing a lot of reading with a plan to start keeping some trees early in the new year. Where I work is in a large estate that has lots of lovely mature trees and I've started noticing a few quiet corners where there are some neglected/forgotten small trees. I have permission from my boss and the gardeners and many of these are available for cuttings, transplanting or maybe air layering. Today I found a couple of specimens that seem healthy enough but they both have some "challenges". Not sure of the species as they have no leaves so any input as to what they are and whether they are worth considering as viable material would be much appreciated.

Here is the first one.



It was half covered with the scraps of OSB sheeting you can see in the pics.

I think the trunk stops at the red line and then the roots begin. I didn't want to disturb it any further until I've decided if I'm taking it or not.




Here's the second one.

It has managed to grow through a steel wire grille and still seems to be in good health.




I've read a lot of posts on air layering and I think this may be a good place to start if it's a suitable candidate.

I can almost hear it screaming "set me free"



It's amazing how nature can adapt to hostile situations.

Mac

 

[caffeinated]

No one can really give much of an answer without knowing species nor seeing leaves and not much else. Who knows on that first one, the second one maybe looks interesting and it doesn't hurt to try. I'd air layer though. Since you have no idea what the tree is, a succesful air layer would let you know sooner if you have a viable project or a waste of your time, rather than trying cuttings and waiting muuuch longer to find out.

Even though these are free, you would be far better off starting with a tree you recognize.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Expect many conflicting opinions on here starting now. Suspect #1 tree as Maple if opposite branches & more Maple leaves on ground. #2 tree maybe Beech based on leaves present/alternate branching. Is there local Bonsai Club one can attach oneself to? Likely best advice there .

 

[Shibui]

The few ID clues we have are circumstantial.
Large flat leaves around the first trunk. Appears to have opposite buds and has self seeded. My guess is some sort of acer - most likely Sycamore (no real scale to judge size of those shed leaves) but note that's just a guess based on flimsy evidence.
Collect it if you like. Large leaves and long internodes make sycamore a less desirable bonsai species but they are hardy and you will learn a lot about collecting trees, response to pruning, etc before you tire of it or have too many better bonsai prospects.

The second tree is more elusive. I can see it has alternate branching so definitely not Acer this time but I can't put a name to the few leaves that are left.
Yes, the trunk is constricted by the mesh and that's how a layer starts but you won't get rooting material that close to the mesh so any layer will be higher away from the swelling trunk. Chances are the part above the mesh will die from restricted water and nutrients before a layer above the mesh can root next spring. I'd be looking at the base of the trunk for any potential. many deciduous sp can be chopped way back and still sprout new shoots.

 

[MacSpook]

Many thanks for taking the time to chime in.

Who knows on that first one, the second one maybe looks interesting and it doesn't hurt to try. I'd air layer though. Since you have no idea what the tree is, a succesful air layer would let you know sooner if you have a viable project or a waste of your time, rather than trying cuttings and waiting muuuch longer to find out.

I know I'm at the bottom of a steep learning curve and air layering is something I'd like to practice without investing money in better material.

Is there local Bonsai Club one can attach oneself to? Likely best advice there .

The nearest one is about a 1 hour drive away and meets once a month. I will go visit them for a chat and see what goes on.

Collect it if you like. Large leaves and long internodes make sycamore a less desirable bonsai species but they are hardy and you will learn a lot about collecting trees, response to pruning, etc before you tire of it or have too many better bonsai prospects.

There are a lot of mature sycamores in surrounding area so you are most likely correct.

For now, I will leave the sycamore where it is. I'm thinking of chopping the trunk on the second tree below the grille and try an air layer in the spring.

Mac

 

[hinmo24t]

they seem rough in my opinion, id look elsewhere

 

[sorce]

Best dig em I reckon, no sense practicing on good material.

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[MacSpook]

they seem rough in my opinion, id look elsewhere

Best dig em I reckon, no sense practicing on good material.

Welcome to Crazy!

They're well rough but if I can turn them into something that is pleasing to look at (to me), then maybe they're worth a try.

Thanks for the welcome sorce.

Mac

 

[HorseloverFat]

Greetings, Traveller!

Apologies.. the TinyForest, at least in the top half of the world, is looking sparse recently,. So scooch in a little closer to the fire and warm your roots. The woody dwarves will hum icicle waltzes while we converse.


As has been said, they appear fairly rough. Difficult to approach, design-wise, once you understand the dynamics of developing a balanced radial root system.

That being said, I would still collect them, gain some soecific, tree-in-a-container, horticultural practices down. You can begin understanding the growth habits, and action/reactions on these “practice trees”...

Yes! Nature, Flora and Fauna, are amazing subjects... unweighed down by triviality, and socialized “games”...

Pleasure to make your acquaintance.

 

[MacSpook]

The one main thing that attracted me to this forum is the good advice... and differing opinions.

The two main things that attracted me to this forum are the good advice and the differing opinions.... and the humour.

The three main things that attracted me to this forum are the good advice, the differing opinions and the humour... and not taking things too seriously.

The four main things that.......

Shall I go out and come in again?

Mac

 

[rockm]

FWIW, you are confusing odd and weird for useable bonsai material. Neither of those is going to offer much practical bonsai experience. Air layering is a practice for something worth the time and trouble. Neither of these is any of that...Free isn't a reason to work on something. I'd skip it and attend a bonsai meeting or three. You are VERY lucky to have access to an old estate and its landscaping. I would get as much knowledge as possible as soon as possible to capitalize on that opportunity on what and when to collect things. Going at it blind like this is not an optimal approach, you are wasting time and effort concentrating on useless junk.

My advice would be to get an actual bonsai, learn how to care for it. Go to some meetings, meet up with local bonsaiists, learn from them IN PERSON (you will triple or quadruple your learning speed with actual hands-on experiences) see if the local club has collecting trips in the coming spring. GO on one of those.

 

[leatherback]

First is a maple, quite possibly an Acer platanoides
Second is a willow

Neither I would recommend for bonsai. But they are both strong species and fast growers so might be nice to play around with and get some experience.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I second @rockm 's recommendation. Walk away from these weed trees, get some hands on, in person advice from the club meetings. An hour drive each way, once a month is well worth the valuable info you will learn.

Start with an elm, any elm species is better than most maples and weed trees. Blackthorn, Prunus spinosa, is another common species that can make excellent bonsai.

"Weed trees" indeed can be good bonsai, but not all species, and not all distressed trees are worth the effort. Carpinus is another "hedgerow species" that makes good bonsai

 

[MacSpook]

Ok, I have plenty of food for thought. thanks to everyone for input.

Mac

 

[MacSpook]

I'm also looking for advice on taking hardwood cuttings from Japanese maples. There are three different ones I'm considering. I didn't see any of them in summer colours. The first two have just finished leaf fall and they were both a vivid red just before starting to lose their leaves. The third one was very dark red, almost purple and started leaf fall about three or four weeks before the others.




I'm thinking of trying different thickness cuttings of each from about 1/4 inch to 1 inch using some rooting hormone and pot them in perlite and fine bark 70/30 mix. I have a cold fame to protect from frost until spring.

Any advice would be welcomed.

Mac

 

[dbonsaiw]

I'd imagine you're a few months too early for cuttings and airlayers. They won't grow roots now and, therefore, you won't have anything to protect in a cold frame.

For shits and giggles, I wonder what would happen if you placed the grille closer to the ground with the tree still in it and cover the grille with soil. Perhaps the trunk will grow enough to strangle itself and force new nebari growth. Fun for an experiment, but not sure how it would look as a bonsai.

 

[penumbra]

looking for advice on taking hardwood cuttings from Japanese maples

There are plenty of folks here much more knowledgeable than I am but I will share what little I know about this endeavor. About 30 years ago I was taking plant propagation classes at a college nearby. I had already been doing some hardwood cuttings in my yard, but these were all easy species like willows. In the class I tried "Bloodgood" JM as hardwood cuttings less than pencil thickness. There was about 10 cuttings. In a greenhouse in February, they were dipped in a hormone mix and stuck in a light potting mix on a heating pad. Three formed roots and one of the three lived for at least a few years that I knew of and grew to about 30 inches or so before I moved. This cultivar is one of the most common and known to be rootable. Many Japanese maple cannot apparently be rooted and I would say a lot more cannot be rooted from hardwood, which is not the excepted wisdom. Last year a put about six hardwood cuttings of a dwarf JM cultivar called "Shaina" into a raised and covered seedbed. Most started to leaf out. A couple months later only two remained with leaves, but they never did grow though they had these leaves most of the season.
I am not saying not to do it, please do. Just don't expect much in the way of JMs from hardwood cuttings. But you just never know. I plan on doing a few this year just cause. I probably won't take cuttings until late February.

 

[Katie0317]

Do you happen to own land that you could plant any of these on or are you restricted to putting them in pots?
Planting them in dirt might result in some beautiful trees if they don't work out for bonsai.

Good luck with your project. So many people don't see the beauty where there is so much trash to dig past. I think you're on to something good with this site. If it's bonsai so be it but they may just turn out to be beautiful in another setting one day. Think they're well worth saving. Good on you!

 

[MacSpook]

For shits and giggles, I wonder what would happen if you placed the grille closer to the ground with the tree still in it and cover the grille with soil. Perhaps the trunk will grow enough to strangle itself and force new nebari growth. Fun for an experiment, but not sure how it would look as a bonsai.

I've since chopped this tree to free it from the grille. I'll keep an eye on the lower part and see how it develops.

I am not saying not to do it, please do. Just don't expect much in the way of JMs from hardwood cuttings. But you just never know. I plan on doing a few this year just cause. I probably won't take cuttings until late February.

I took some cuttings from one of the trees. They range from pencil thick up to about 3/8 inch. I placed them flat in a sheltered spot in the garden and covered them with some soil and leaf litter. I read somewhere you can bury cuttings to keep them dormant during winter until weather improves for planting. I'll go back to them in early spring and try planting them in the ground with rooting gel.

Do you happen to own land that you could plant any of these on or are you restricted to putting them in pots?
Planting them in dirt might result in some beautiful trees if they don't work out for bonsai.

Good luck with your project. So many people don't see the beauty where there is so much trash to dig past. I think you're on to something good with this site. If it's bonsai so be it but they may just turn out to be beautiful in another setting one day. Think they're well worth saving. Good on you!

I do have a small flower garden with some space available, however, I am aware that this space will fill up pretty quick as I experiment with bonsai material.

I found another abandoned tree with interesting exposed roots. I may have a go with this one.

 

[colley614]

I've since chopped this tree to free it from the grille. I'll keep an eye on the lower part and see how it develops.


I took some cuttings from one of the trees. They range from pencil thick up to about 3/8 inch. I placed them flat in a sheltered spot in the garden and covered them with some soil and leaf litter. I read somewhere you can bury cuttings to keep them dormant during winter until weather improves for planting. I'll go back to them in early spring and try planting them in the ground with rooting gel.


I do have a small flower garden with some space available, however, I am aware that this space will fill up pretty quick as I experiment with bonsai material.

I found another abandoned tree with interesting exposed roots. I may have a go with this one.
View attachment 414183

Hi,

The maple in the first picture definitely looks like a sycamore maple. I have a couple in pots. I first confused them with field maples but the other 2 two maples I've come across in the UK, the field maple and Norway both have brown/purplish buds. Sycamore are green.

Personally, I would recommend getting on Bonsai.co.uk and getting a few starter trees. For £3-£4 you can't go wrong.