Notes from my first bonsai show

[Woocash]

I visited my first show today, Swindon winter image bonsai show. There were well over a hundred trees on display and it was quite an eye opener for me. It is definitely true that photos can only show so much. While I was very impressed with most of the trees on display, I also left feeling confident that it is not an unachievable endeavour to create some comparable trees of my own, time allowing obviously.

There are several things that stuck with me. It may seem like a list of negatives, but by understanding what I don’t like will only highlight what works for me.

It was amazing just how clean the trees were. Most did not look like trees, in the same way that show dogs do not look like true representations of dogs. They reminded me of museum exhibits rather than living things. I don’t know whether they are purposely swept, honed and polished to within an inch of their lives or if this is a simple byproduct of years of handling, but it was quite odd to see for the first time.

I don’t like moss purposely put on a display for a show. It hides or shrouds the nebari more often than not and seems to add to the model railway feel of certain trees.

Lime sulphur in the wrong hands or on the wrong trees is just plain weird. On only a handful of trees, generally Itoigawa junipers did it suit or not overtake the image. Not good for deciduous.

The prunus and hawthorn on display were far chunkier than I had expected them to be at the twiggy ends of branches, and more so than on mature wild trees. Is this normal? I understand on some species how this is inevitable, but they both exhibit fine twigging in the wild so is this due to a rush to create a mature branch structure or just completely normal for these types of species in bonsai training? Following on, how would one combat this over time?

Good carving really does make a huge difference to adding natural age and taper. I have collected lots of stumps. I am now not so worried about disguising the cuts.

It takes 22 years to grow a tip top tree from seed. There were several on display and all started in 1998, weirdly.

Trees are really expensive. I knew that was the case but I was very surprised at the price of trees for their size, particularly with smaller size trees and rough(ish) material. Adding to that, most of the trees and pots that were for sale were far smaller than the majority of trees on display. It does seem strange that people generally display large trees, but that more kit is for smaller bonsai.

I really want an Itoigawa juniper. They just cost so darn much!

I’m sure I’ve forgotten other stuff, but I should add that I very much enjoyed my visit and may well go to a club meeting or two in the future if I can get some confidence and not be intimidated by the thought. I was a bit of a wimp so didn't really speak to anybody, but it does seem like a nice community, they’re just all 20 years my senior! There were so many lovely trees there and I have come home feeling very inspired and have learnt so much just by being able to see some bonsai up close.

Next stop, Noelanders 2040!

 

[Adair M]

I visited my first show today, Swindon winter image bonsai show. There were well over a hundred trees on display and it was quite an eye opener for me. It is definitely true that photos can only show so much. While I was very impressed with most of the trees on display, I also left feeling confident that it is not an unachievable endeavour to create some comparable trees of my own, time allowing obviously.

There are several things that stuck with me. It may seem like a list of negatives, but by understanding what I don’t like will only highlight what works for me.

It was amazing just how clean the trees were. Most did not look like trees, in the same way that show dogs do not look like true representations of dogs. They reminded me of museum exhibits rather than living things. I don’t know whether they are purposely swept, honed and polished to within an inch of their lives or if this is a simple byproduct of years of handling, but it was quite odd to see for the first time.

I don’t like moss purposely put on a display for a show. It hides or shrouds the nebari more often than not and seems to add to the model railway feel of certain trees.

Lime sulphur in the wrong hands or on the wrong trees is just plain weird. On only a handful of trees, generally Itoigawa junipers did it suit or not overtake the image. Not good for deciduous.

The prunus and hawthorn on display were far chunkier than I had expected them to be at the twiggy ends of branches, and more so than on mature wild trees. Is this normal? I understand on some species how this is inevitable, but they both exhibit fine twigging in the wild so is this due to a rush to create a mature branch structure or just completely normal for these types of species in bonsai training? Following on, how would one combat this over time?

Good carving really does make a huge difference to adding natural age and taper. I have collected lots of stumps. I am now not so worried about disguising the cuts.

It takes 22 years to grow a tip top tree from seed. There were several on display and all started in 1998, weirdly.

Trees are really expensive. I knew that was the case but I was very surprised at the price of trees for their size, particularly with smaller size trees and rough(ish) material. Adding to that, most of the trees and pots that were for sale were far smaller than the majority of trees on display. It does seem strange that people generally display large trees, but that more kit is for smaller bonsai.

I really want an Itoigawa juniper. They just cost so darn much!

I’m sure I’ve forgotten other stuff, but I should add that I very much enjoyed my visit and may well go to a club meeting or two in the future if I can get some confidence and not be intimidated by the thought. I was a bit of a wimp so didn't really speak to anybody, but it does seem like a nice community, they’re just all 20 years my senior! There were so many lovely trees there and I have come home feeling very inspired and have learnt so much just by being able to see some bonsai up close.

Next stop, Noelanders 2040!

I’m glad you had a good time!

About the moss: in Japan, it’s considered rude to bring “dirt” into the house. It’s why thrr E y remove their shoes at the front door. So, by covering the soil with moss, no “dirt” is exposed!

That said, applying moss, correctly, is a skill all it’s own. You should be able to see the nebari. Skillfully applies miss would not, should not, hide the nebari. Some people are better at “moss” than others.

About lime sulfur: trees growing at high altitudes are subject to intense sun with high UV exposure, dry air, and no fungus, mildew or insects. This creates a natural “sun bleached” appearance. Lime sulfur is the best we can to mimic the look of that high mountain exposure. Again, there is a degree of skill than can make lime sulfur look natural. If done poorly, it looks like white paint!

Lime sulfur is a fungicide, so it can aid in slowing the rotting of wood. Again, some trees, deciduous, primarily,don’t have long lasting deadwood, and when they do, it’s usually dark, or black colored. It’s possible to add India Ink to lime sulfur to imitate the look of deciduous deadwood, while at the same time preserving the deadwood. Again, this is a skill. Some are better at it than others.

If something looks “carved”, then again, it’s not done well. Some times it’s just a matter of time: that is, oncea piece is carved, it takes a couple of years to “naturalize” so that it loses that “freshly carved” look.

As for the trees looking “groomed”: well, yes, that’s typical. We should see clean, oiled pots, algae and excess moss removed, dead needles removed, weeds pulled, minimal wire (especially on deciduous), etc. It IS like seeing dogs at a dog show. The trees should look like they’re thriving, and being very well taken care of.

 

[flor1]

Did you find the golden triangle that all true bonsai must have.

 

[Tieball]

Your comments are very appropriate observations. Targeted and clear. Your takeaway was an excellent inspiration for your own tree work.

And, those “seniors” to you....they really enjoy talking about trees and explaining their viewpoints. Talk trees. No politics. Engage them on a few select tree subjects...free learning.

 

[Adair M]

Your comments are very appropriate observations. Targeted and clear. Your takeaway was an excellent inspiration for your own tree work.

And, those “seniors” to you....they really enjoy talking about trees and explaining their viewpoints. Talk trees. No politics. Engage them on a few select tree subjects...free learning.

Indeed!! You often can tell who knows about bonsai at a show. And, like Tieball said, they like to talk about trees. It would not be out of line to ask someone, “I see this tree has been treated with lime sulfur. Is that natural?” And then you can hear what they have to say. It may very well be that the concensus is that a tree has been lime sulfured, but most people think it shouldn’t have been! Just because a tree is shown in a certain condition doesn’t mean that it was done correctly!

I was recently at the California Shohin Convention, and there were only a few displays there that, in my opinion, did not have major faults! Faults that could have been easily avoided.

That’s half the fun of going to a show. Figuring out how you can do it better! Lol!!!

 

[Woocash]

I’m glad you had a good time!

About the moss: in Japan, it’s considered rude to bring “dirt” into the house. It’s why thrr E y remove their shoes at the front door. So, by covering the soil with moss, no “dirt” is exposed!

That said, applying moss, correctly, is a skill all it’s own. You should be able to see the nebari. Skillfully applies miss would not, should not, hide the nebari. Some people are better at “moss” than others.

About lime sulfur: trees growing at high altitudes are subject to intense sun with high UV exposure, dry air, and no fungus, mildew or insects. This creates a natural “sun bleached” appearance. Lime sulfur is the best we can to mimic the look of that high mountain exposure. Again, there is a degree of skill than can make lime sulfur look natural. If done poorly, it looks like white paint!

Lime sulfur is a fungicide, so it can aid in slowing the rotting of wood. Again, some trees, deciduous, primarily,don’t have long lasting deadwood, and when they do, it’s usually dark, or black colored. It’s possible to add India Ink to lime sulfur to imitate the look of deciduous deadwood, while at the same time preserving the deadwood. Again, this is a skill. Some are better at it than others.

If something looks “carved”, then again, it’s not done well. Some times it’s just a matter of time: that is, oncea piece is carved, it takes a couple of years to “naturalize” so that it loses that “freshly carved” look.

As for the trees looking “groomed”: well, yes, that’s typical. We should see clean, oiled pots, algae and excess moss removed, dead needles removed, weeds pulled, minimal wire (especially on deciduous), etc. It IS like seeing dogs at a dog show. The trees should look like they’re thriving, and being very well taken care of.

Thanks! I certainly appreciated all the ring craft, to coin another dog show phrase, and I understand the reasoning. It’s just funny to see it all up close and with the bark of various trees looking more monotone than in the wild. I suppose that’s natural in miniature though and with the lack of organic soils and other contaminants to dirty them etc.

I didn’t know that or rather consider that about Japanese etiquette though with regards to the moss. It makes sense. There were definitely some better attempts at application of the moss than others, but I guess practice makes perfect. I think a lot of it probably comes from my preconceptions of what trees look like. I’ll pay more attention to it next time to change my appreciation now I know the why’s and wherefore’s.

The hiding of nebari reminds me though how many trees didn't have a “standard” radial nebari either. I think a fair amount were collected material, to be fair, but a lot showed a flair made up of crossing and furled up roots instead to the usual radial pattern

There were several examples of well used lime sulphur, but I suspect it’s one of those “less is more” situations, in terms of applications, using more thin layers over time as various trees did look painted unfortunately. Again, It’s one of those things where I get why you would use it, but I wouldn’t be surprised if some people do and then instantly realise its a bad idea in that case. Can it be reversed or neutralised later on?

I probably sound quite disparaging and even insulting with some of my comments, but I just tend to remember what not to do or what I’m not a fan of more easily as faults always stand out more. Like you say, figuring out how you can do it better. I’ve definitely got a taste for it though. I just need to go to more shows now and get more idea of standards and techniques (and maybe even speak to some people - it’s much easier behind a screen)

 

[Woocash]

Did you find the golden triangle that all true bonsai must have.

Yea, it was on a tree named “Bermuda” actually...

No, however, I could much easier see the principles in 3D than from a photo. The way branches climb up the tree radially and in decreasing increments, the overall proportions of the canopy etc. It was a good lesson.

 

[Adair M]

Thanks! I certainly appreciated all the ring craft, to coin another dog show phrase, and I understand the reasoning. It’s just funny to see it all up close and with the bark of various trees looking more monotone than in the wild. I suppose that’s natural in miniature though and with the lack of organic soils and other contaminants to dirty them etc.

I didn’t know that or rather consider that about Japanese etiquette though with regards to the moss. It makes sense. There were definitely some better attempts at application of the moss than others, but I guess practice makes perfect. I think a lot of it probably comes from my preconceptions of what trees look like. I’ll pay more attention to it next time to change my appreciation now I know the why’s and wherefore’s.

The hiding of nebari reminds me though how many trees didn't have a “standard” radial nebari either. I think a fair amount were collected material, to be fair, but a lot showed a flair made up of crossing and furled up roots instead to the usual radial pattern

There were several examples of well used lime sulphur, but I suspect it’s one of those “less is more” situations, in terms of applications, using more thin layers over time as various trees did look painted unfortunately. Again, It’s one of those things where I get why you would use it, but I wouldn’t be surprised if some people do and then instantly realise its a bad idea in that case. Can it be reversed or neutralised later on?

I probably sound quite disparaging and even insulting with some of my comments, but I just tend to remember what not to do or what I’m not a fan of more easily as faults always stand out more. Like you say, figuring out how you can do it better. I’ve definitely got a taste for it though. I just need to go to more shows now and get more idea of standards and techniques (and maybe even speak to some people - it’s much easier behind a screen)

well, lime sulfur, if applied full strength onto dry wood will dry up and look like paint. It will eventually flake off.
That’s not the way I do it, however. I will wet the wood, then allow it to dry out for about an hour. It’s still damp. Then I apply lime sulfur diluted 50/50 with water. What happens is when applied diluted into damp deadwood is the deadwood tends to absorb the lime sulfur. It doesn’t just sit on the surface like a coat of paint. And when it dries, it’s not as stark white, and some of the natural grain shows. It may or may not be as white as I would like. I give it a couple of days to dry out to really see what shade it turns out to be. If I feel it needs to be whiter, I can do it again, no problem. Even doing it twice yields a “less stark white” appearance.

it’s “”attention to details” that separate the top trees from the rest.

And, I’ve actually been to the mountains and seen the junipers at 10,000 feet and seen their deadwood up close and personal, so I know what it really looks like in the wild. Ithink that helps, too.

 

[Woocash]

Your comments are very appropriate observations. Targeted and clear. Your takeaway was an excellent inspiration for your own tree work.

And, those “seniors” to you....they really enjoy talking about trees and explaining their viewpoints. Talk trees. No politics. Engage them on a few select tree subjects...free learning.

Cheers, I felt like like I learnt a lot in a short space of time. Much like going to a place you‘ve always liked photos of, seeing it in person gives a whole different perspective.

My girlfriend says I should fit in no problem because I act like an old man already! In fact, I prefer the company of cantankerous old duffers, because they generally have a greater appreciation and knowledge of the same things I like than most young’uns these days. See, there I go again.

I’ll probably go to the next club meet, to be fair. I’m just shy at first, but then you can’t shut me up when I’ve got an in.

 

[Woocash]

well, lime sulfur, if applied full strength onto dry wood will dry up and look like paint. It will eventually flake off.
That’s not the way I do it, however. I will wet the wood, then allow it to dry out for about an hour. It’s still damp. Then I apply lime sulfur diluted 50/50 with water. What happens is when applied diluted into damp deadwood is the deadwood tends to absorb the lime sulfur. It doesn’t just sit on the surface like a coat of paint. And when it dries, it’s not as stark white, and some of the natural grain shows. It may or may not be as white as I would like. I give it a couple of days to dry out to really see what shade it turns out to be. If I feel it needs to be whiter, I can do it again, no problem. Even doing it twice yields a “less stark white” appearance.

it’s “”attention to details” that separate the top trees from the rest.

And, I’ve actually been to the mountains and seen the junipers at 10,000 feet and seen their deadwood up close and personal, so I know what it really looks like in the wild. Ithink that helps, too.

I dare say so. I cant really compare, but living on a boat I have amassed a collection of driftwood, generally willow, that takes on a pale silvery grey colour, not too dissimilar to photos of some of the mountain juniper I’ve seen. I guess the proof’s in the pudding when it comes to trying it out for myself, but I’ve got a small yew I hacked to pieces that I was thinking of practicing on as I’m not sure it’ll pull through so i’ll follow your advice and give it a go. Thanks.

 

[Warpig]

I vary much argee with the points @Adair M has said, just wanted to add.

I understand on some species how this is inevitable, but they both exhibit fine twigging in the wild so is this due to a rush to create a mature branch structure or just completely normal for these types of species in bonsai training? Following on, how would one combat this over time?

You have to remember bonsai is a ever living art. Trees are always planned for whats to come. If you were to ask the one's growing the trees I'm sure they would tell you why they look as they do and how it will improve the tree.

 

[Shibui]

Trees are really expensive. I knew that was the case but I was very surprised at the price of trees for their size, particularly with smaller size trees and rough(ish) material. Adding to that, most of the trees and pots that were for sale were far smaller than the majority of trees on display. It does seem strange that people generally display large trees, but that more kit is for smaller bonsai.

There's a couple of reasons that trees are expensive. Some have had lots of time and effort put into them and/or they look great. Some are just expensive because the owners are hoping to make a quick buck out of mug punters
Large trees are impressive. Larger trees tend to win any awards going so people exhibit larger trees. The smaller the tree the more difficult it becomes to keep it alive and to make a good job of making it look like a tree. For really small bonsai you need to give the impression of an entire tree with only enough room for a couple of branches.
You already mentioned that bonsai tend to be expensive. Larger stock generally sells for more than smaller but the buyers at shows are often beginners who baulk at paying large sums when it may just die. They tend to purchase cheaper material. That's what sells so that's what club members offer. At a bonsai sow I can sell lots of heap starters but relatively few more expensive advanced trees because there are lots of beginners but only a few more advanced growers who do not already have too many trees at home.
What's on offer may also be a result of what the growers can produce. Most people don't have room to keep trees for years to grow large or get really advanced so there is little of that sort of stock.
At shows where there are professional or semi pro growers you can often see far more advanced material because those growers specialise in producing it. Different growers specialise in different areas. Some grow trees and pot into bonsai pots as 'finished'. Some grow trunks with branches developing ramification before selling still in grow boxes. Some, like me, grow trunks and sell at that stage to others who will develop branching, etc.
Prices will reflect the time and costs to get the tree that far as well as how good we think it is and how much people will be wiling to pay.
Trees on the sales tables will also reflect what time you got there. Good stock gets grabbed early. Keen buyers will be lined up before opening time eager to grab the best bargains and better stock. By the time you get there mid morning all the best have gone. On the second day there is often only the dregs left.

 

[Woocash]

There's a couple of reasons that trees are expensive. Some have had lots of time and effort put into them and/or they look great. Some are just expensive because the owners are hoping to make a quick buck out of mug punters
Large trees are impressive. Larger trees tend to win any awards going so people exhibit larger trees. The smaller the tree the more difficult it becomes to keep it alive and to make a good job of making it look like a tree. For really small bonsai you need to give the impression of an entire tree with only enough room for a couple of branches.
You already mentioned that bonsai tend to be expensive. Larger stock generally sells for more than smaller but the buyers at shows are often beginners who baulk at paying large sums when it may just die. They tend to purchase cheaper material. That's what sells so that's what club members offer. At a bonsai sow I can sell lots of heap starters but relatively few more expensive advanced trees because there are lots of beginners but only a few more advanced growers who do not already have too many trees at home.
What's on offer may also be a result of what the growers can produce. Most people don't have room to keep trees for years to grow large or get really advanced so there is little of that sort of stock.
At shows where there are professional or semi pro growers you can often see far more advanced material because those growers specialise in producing it. Different growers specialise in different areas. Some grow trees and pot into bonsai pots as 'finished'. Some grow trunks with branches developing ramification before selling still in grow boxes. Some, like me, grow trunks and sell at that stage to others who will develop branching, etc.
Prices will reflect the time and costs to get the tree that far as well as how good we think it is and how much people will be wiling to pay.
Trees on the sales tables will also reflect what time you got there. Good stock gets grabbed early. Keen buyers will be lined up before opening time eager to grab the best bargains and better stock. By the time you get there mid morning all the best have gone. On the second day there is often only the dregs left.

Some dregs eh for £400? But no, I get your meaning. I took £50 with me (I’ve never bought a plant for that much before) not with the intention of buying anything but just in case of finding some half decent raw material. The only really raw stuff though was 1, 2 or 3 year old larches. Like you say, I probably got there way too late at half way through the day, but I was really just interested in looking mainly anyway.
I am at somewhat of a crossroads in my life when it comes to employment and earning potential so I’m assessing options of get rich slow schemes and selling rough bonsai stock and Yamadori/collected material was something I had thought about exploring somewhere down the line as a partial or whole income stream. I have access to a couple of acres and a lot of trees to move and grow on and I’ve started several seeds to see where they end up in a few years which I plan on repeating each year with more experience.
To see a lot of trees en masse and for what prices they went for was encouraging for the thought of demand though. Even if it is just to keep me going through my retirement (in 35 years)!
Thanks for your perspective. As someone who is in the business of bonsai, it’s good to get an inside viewpoint. How did you start and when did you turn pro?

 

[Shibui]

Not sure I could call myself "pro" Shibui bonsai is a part time business and was never meant to provide a full income. More of a supplemental income for doing what I like doing.

Probably started a little like you. I had been dabbling in bonsai for a few years then had the land and some time so i started experimenting with ground growing to speed up trunk development. The first couple were encouraging and I decided that more would give me a better chance of getting a few good ones. That meant I had surplus trees of average quality so started selling surplus on the trading tables at bonsai shows. More trees planted in an attempt to get that show stopper so more to sell off. Practice and changes to techniques gradually improved results so still more to sell.
A new partner to encourage me to take the next step and make it a formal small business and the internet provided a way for remote suppliers like me to get into the marketplace and here we are today.

Shibui Bonsai is a micro business. Just me doing it all and that's how I plan to keep it. I have other part time sources of income but we don't need much to exist the way we do so I work more for interest than income.
I still grow trees in the ground, still looking for the best of the best and those that don't make the grade provide stock for many other bonsai people up and down the east coast of Aus.

 

[leatherback]

I probably sound quite disparaging and even insulting with some of my comments, but I just tend to remember what not to do or what I’m not a fan of more easily as faults always stand out more. Like you say, figuring out how you can do it better.

Also keep in mind: Many shows hve the intent that people can show their trees. So there will be contenders for the prices. But also people who just want to show their trees. Many people are slightly concerned when it comes to large corrections on their trees, especially larger material. So unless you are in it for the prices, you accept certain flaws because it is a big risk, or may take a long time, to correct.

Growing trunks to make money is only interesting if you have time to spare and land for free. If you look at that 300 gbp trunk that has been grown out over 15 years.. you ar elooking at an annual return of 20 gbp. Take off taxes (If you want to do it as a compagny) and it is a 10 gbp revenue per year. If you want to make 10K you need to sell 1000 trees of 15 years each year. That means you have 15.000 trees in the ground to maintain.

 

[Shibui]

Great figures. It all adds up but are any of those real?
Trident maples are ready for sale here in 3-4 years at $100-$300. Pines and junipers for similar prices in 5-8 years.
Taxes at 50% ?? Thank goodness I don't live over there!! By the time I deduct 'expenses' there's not too much profit so tax rates are way below your 50%
Granted, growing pre bonsai is not as lucrative as some other pursuits but I really enjoy doing what I do, unlike many jobs now there's very little stress and I earn some money as well. Win-win I think.

 

[Woocash]

Not sure I could call myself "pro" Shibui bonsai is a part time business and was never meant to provide a full income. More of a supplemental income for doing what I like doing.

Probably started a little like you. I had been dabbling in bonsai for a few years then had the land and some time so i started experimenting with ground growing to speed up trunk development. The first couple were encouraging and I decided that more would give me a better chance of getting a few good ones. That meant I had surplus trees of average quality so started selling surplus on the trading tables at bonsai shows. More trees planted in an attempt to get that show stopper so more to sell off. Practice and changes to techniques gradually improved results so still more to sell.
A new partner to encourage me to take the next step and make it a formal small business and the internet provided a way for remote suppliers like me to get into the marketplace and here we are today.

Shibui Bonsai is a micro business. Just me doing it all and that's how I plan to keep it. I have other part time sources of income but we don't need much to exist the way we do so I work more for interest than income.
I still grow trees in the ground, still looking for the best of the best and those that don't make the grade provide stock for many other bonsai people up and down the east coast of Aus.

Well, that’s pro enough for me! This was sort of my thinking because I live a relatively low cost lifestyle and I like it that way. I would like to just get by by receiving a small steady stream of income from several areas that interest me as opposed to becoming a high flying anything. Life’s too short to spend it earning lots of money for other people or breaking your back because we’re all sold a dream. I’m currently a part time self employed handyman. It pays the bills but it’s not particularly exciting. I’ve always loved trees and horticulture so this seems like a no brainer to at least see what can be produced in a few years. Like you say, growing trunks and selling the surplus.

 

[Woocash]

Also keep in mind: Many shows hve the intent that people can show their trees. So there will be contenders for the prices. But also people who just want to show their trees. Many people are slightly concerned when it comes to large corrections on their trees, especially larger material. So unless you are in it for the prices, you accept certain flaws because it is a big risk, or may take a long time, to correct.

Growing trunks to make money is only interesting if you have time to spare and land for free. If you look at that 300 gbp trunk that has been grown out over 15 years.. you ar elooking at an annual return of 20 gbp. Take off taxes (If you want to do it as a compagny) and it is a 10 gbp revenue per year. If you want to make 10K you need to sell 1000 trees of 15 years each year. That means you have 15.000 trees in the ground to maintain.

I did wonder if that was the case, to be honest. Some trees did have obvious branches here and there that were clearly quite old but were just not contributing or even holding back future development IMO. I thought it must be almost sentimental in some cases because there would be a temporary hole in their lovingly nurtured canopy. It’s fine, I guess it just depends if your mindset is to want to show off your baby or to win awards.

As for taxes Etc, Shibui is probably right that at the levels I wold aim for it would equate to nowhere near 50%, infact at 10K it’d be tax free, but I get your thinking, a long time and a lot of trees would be needed to establish any kind of relied upon income. Still, some people do it, it seems worth a go from the outset anyway as I have land, time and inclination all available to me. We’ll see.

 

[rockm]

Funny you compare dog shows to bonsai and then complain about "Expensive." Having grown up as kennel help going to a few hundred dogs shows in my childhood, I have also noticed many parallels to dog/bonsai shows and dog/bonsai people.

for instance, I've heard many people complain about hugely expensive show dogs--which for some breeds can be over $5,000 for a puppy. That price, from a good breeder, is not for the dog itself. Mostly it is for the work, expense and know-how put into producing that dog.

Same is true for GOOD bonsai. Like expensive pure bred dogs, there are a lot of idiots breeding half-pedigreed, diseased and just plain bad looking "show dogs." Same for bonsai stock.

You get into the hobby by taking your lumps learning the difference.

And about the moss, if you're noticing it, the person that applied it did a very very bad job. Mossing, as Adair said, takes time and talent. Many think for a show, you just lay it down like a carpet a week before the show. Should be done MONTHS before to allow it to settle.
A good job is not noticeable and is not just a sheet of monochromatic green fuzz...

 

[rockm]

I dare say so. I cant really compare, but living on a boat I have amassed a collection of driftwood, generally willow, that takes on a pale silvery grey colour, not too dissimilar to photos of some of the mountain juniper I’ve seen. I guess the proof’s in the pudding when it comes to trying it out for myself, but I’ve got a small yew I hacked to pieces that I was thinking of practicing on as I’m not sure it’ll pull through so i’ll follow your advice and give it a go. Thanks.

If you're not working with alpine species, stark white deadwood is out of place. As Adair said, stark white bleached deadwood really is a thing in alpine environments, like above a mile. The sunlight's infrared and ultiraviolet rays at altitude are much more intense than in a lowland woodland. That intense IR and UV bleaches fungus, mold and other microorganisms out of exposed wood.

lower down in the forest, all that stuff lives on deadwood and rots it. Alpine deadwood does not rot, at least not quickly. Lowland deadwood, particularly on deciduous trees, does and quite rapidly if conditions allow. That means if you're using deadwood on deciduous trees, you need to darken the lime sulfur--you can use India Ink or water soluable grey, green and black pain diluted in the lime sulfur to tone down the white....