Nuclear Power...

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There are a number of modes to produce power on a large scale for our growing consumption, and of course there is always the push for nuclear power that IMHO, never seem to tell the "whole story"... like zero emission electric cars, it's nothing more than a shell game where, either the emissions are produced in a large power plant before the car is recharged, or the environmental implications aren't taken into account throughout the entire process of power production (like how the nuclear power industry always seems to forget about the storage of spent rods for thousands of years). I though that a few people might find these two articles of interest; one, a web page and the other a news article...

https://vasil.ludost.net/kiddofspeed/

a Google search of "kiddofspeed" or elenafilatova.com will bring up more than one page that may be of interest to some Nuts; some of it relevant to power production, and some not...

The second is a news article that I believe to be quite accurate in it's numbers, but lets deduce that the negative impact is only half of what they are saying here... just look at the numbers...

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...-an-expensive-and-risky-process-opg-says.html
 

Dan92119

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Just things I have read in the past, I don’t have links.
If there is an EMP event(which I think is likely someday) no way to shut down nuclear power plants.....so melt downs.

I think it’s called a fast breeder nuclear power plant, produces materials that are very radioactive but it’s only that way for a 100 years, instead of half life’s of 24000 years of the materials in commercial power plants.

I think the drawbacks of a fast breeder plant is that it produces weapons grade materials.

Then there is thorium plants I think the are hard to get started but shut down automatically if there is an issue.
 

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Just things I have read in the past, I don’t have links.
If there is an EMP event(which I think is likely someday) no way to shut down nuclear power plants.....so melt downs.

I think it’s called a fast breeder nuclear power plant, produces materials that are very radioactive but it’s only that way for a 100 years, instead of half life’s of 24000 years of the materials in commercial power plants.

I think the drawbacks of a fast breeder plant is that it produces weapons grade materials.

Then there is thorium plants I think the are hard to get started but shut down automatically if there is an issue.

The one thing that is always in the back of my mind (all be it prejudicial), is that I understand how something could have happened in the former Soviet Union, but, if the Japanese can't get it right, I don't think a corporate-capitalism is going to get it right, which IMHO goes back to what you said, "If there is an EMP event(which I think is likely someday)"...

However, I have 30 years to walk around on this earth "at best", so I can't really get my blood pressure rising over something that I can't control anyway... 24,000 years amounts to a significant number of (human) generations to pay for, and clean up a mess... I'll do my part buy allowing my bones to soak up a tiny fraction of the radiation... :)
 

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I have never really given it much thought, some but I didn't grow up around them. I think there may be 1 plant in all of Oz so we never really had the discussions or if we did it was before my time and decided. That said when I first moved to europe and flew over the stacks on landing near the airport I looked into it somewhat and came to the conclusion all would likely be good aside from a catastrophic incident. It is a very good way to power nations, but now with tech we are seeing that it will be possible to do away with nuclear and coal in time. A few nations in EU are stopping or winding down there nuclear plants so I think they wont last forever but as an alternative to coal they do sit pretty good.

My home town recently had some big power issues, it also has some of the highest electricity bills on the planet. Elon Musk offered his Solar City batteries to our state and set it up and it has performed above all expectations. The only real issue I can see is that our government are involved which means it will all go balls up at some point.

An interesting side point my wife was offered a job at ITER once, the timing was terrible but if she was offered again I don't think it would be turned down.
 

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I wouldn't want anyone to get the idea that I'm hating on people who work in the industry, or nuclear power itself... I just think if we're going to have a conversation, lets have all of the facts. Excluding storage and waste management from the equation isn't providing all of the facts... the same as the tree hugger who drives the cool electric car, that is recharged by coal fired plants that aren't refitted for carbon capture and sequestration.

Interestingly, a coal fired plant that has carbon capture is 2.5 times cleaner than nature gas... but no one in Canada seems to want to have that conversation either.

Going back to Elena's page, imagine taking a city of 100-200,000 people and abandoning it... you have 1 hour to leave town and you aren't allowed to take anything with you... meanwhile your cat is constantly 10 paces in front of you staring at the pretty light reflecting off of the massive mushroom cloud in the sky, occasionally looking back at you thinking WTF dude?
 

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Solar or wind or water or wave where possible,
thank you.
Anthony

* On our side you have to ask, since the 1700's do you
really need that air conditioner ?
Didn't grow up with them, didn't go to school with them
and why now ........................
 

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Yep, there are lots of alternatives and different regions require different modes... IMHO, conservation/reduction of use, should be placed in the forefront of any power generation conversation.
 

bonsaidave

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https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...ear-power-plant-u-s-reviewing-proposed-design

Micro nuke reactors are the way of the future and have been in the works for 20 years. Self contained, can't melt down and breach the outer container, last for years then just pop a new one in. Super cool stuff.

Also, look up battery plants that make your electric car batteries. Shell game indeed. Instead of mild pollution where your car is, there is 10 million cars worth of pollution around battery factories and power plants. Electric cars just mean different people/companies getting rich and telling you "your saving the environment".
 

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https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...ear-power-plant-u-s-reviewing-proposed-design

Micro nuke reactors are the way of the future and have been in the works for 20 years. Self contained, can't melt down and breach the outer container, last for years then just pop a new one in. Super cool stuff.

Also, look up battery plants that make your electric car batteries. Shell game indeed. Instead of mild pollution where your car is, there is 10 million cars worth of pollution around battery factories and power plants. Electric cars just mean different people/companies getting rich and telling you "your saving the environment".

I'm certain that you meant to include this in your statement, but the environmental impact of all those batteries after the cars are beyond a useful stage... there is probably more mercury in one used up car than comes out of a sequestered coal fired plant in a year.

(I haven't read your link yet, but I will shortly.)
 

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Micro nuke reactors are the way of the future and have been in the works for 20 years. Self contained, can't melt down and breach the outer container, last for years then just pop a new one in. Super cool stuff.

Those micro nukes are interesting, but the storage and management of the spent fuel is still the big issue "for me"... the longer I live the more I realize that even what I thought was a benign materials/processes/products, almost always have a way to come back and bite me in the ass.
 

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It was just the first decent link I found. I have been seeing articles, from time to time, about the technology for the last 10 years though.

Byproducts and waste products happen no matter where you get energy from. We just have to decide what we will accept and what we can deal with (CO2, radioactive waste, toxic chemicals).

Back to cars.
It's all just different pollution. Electric could be less of an impact. I bet we would find the harm done is comparable, just different kinds, when taking into account all aspects from digging the raw material to throwing the cars away.

Either way it doesn't matter. The marketing says buy these electric cars to feel good and "save the environment". Some people feel this way and buy electric cars. Everyone else (including me) will buy electric once they get cheaper than combustion cars, with comparable range, performance, fast charge times, and solve battery degradation from age/use. Until then it's just economics. I can't blow an extra 5, 10, 20 grand on an electric car.

If someone buys electric I got no problem with it. Maybe they don't need to drive very far daily and don't mind blowing extra money on the car. More power to you. ? I'm so funny.
 

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I fully agree with you, I just have a problem with the marketing and people's shortsightedness despite being educated. If they just said "I bought the car because it's new technology and I think it's cool" I'd be fine with that... but to try and make me think that they are saving the planet without looking at the whole picture really makes me question their intelligence.

It reminds me of the same types of people who think that the methane from cow farts (etc) are causing global warming... ok, if you think that's true, take all of the cattle, hogs, chickens, sheep etc. out of North America, and put the buffalo, elk, moose, deer, antelope, wolves, coyotes, bear, etc. etc. back in the same numbers there were before the settlers came... what are the totals after doing this, and how much of an effect are the domesticated animals really having on the planet in comparison.

My argument is: We have 7.2 billion people world wide today. In 1492 the estimated population was 112 million world wide... now subtract the two numbers and calculate the methane production from the additional 7+ billion people we didn't have then... I'd bet the methane production from the 580 million North Americans who live here today, far outnumbers the difference between the domestic livestock and the wildlife that roamed the New Land all those years ago... bottle those farts people, we need it to power our cars.
 

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I should add, that I've looked at Elena's site many times since I first found it. (Probably close to 20 years ago) There is an indication that the last time she updated it was around 2004. Since then, I have read that because the containment structure was built so rapidly, the top of the sarcophagus is already threatening to collapse... there are estimations that if/when this happens, the environmental impact will be much higher than when the melt down occurred because the graphite that burnt uncontrollably created a deep layer of radioactive dust... it's this dust cloud that has scientists worried now, and the indecision as to what the best course of action is to prevent it isn't helping either.
 

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After writing the last post, I spent some time going through Elena's site using this previously unused (by me) address.

http:// elenafilatova.com

I incorrectly stated that she hadn't updated the information that she provided since 2004, but it is obvious that she has... much like rubber-necking a car crash, it's hard not to look once you know it's there...
 

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Batteries - plates made from iron or titanium or forms of silica

:);)o_O:eek::p
War is coming, time to lighten the world of i.q.s under 120
Put the poor out in front as was traditionally done.
The old solution.
Good Day
Anthony
 

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No thinking person who has a modicum of self-awareness would/should never allow their superiority complex from blinding themselves from their own shortcomings... especially, when they make them so obvious to others.
 

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There are a number of modes to produce power on a large scale for our growing consumption, and of course there is always the push for nuclear power that IMHO, never seem to tell the "whole story"... like zero emission electric cars, it's nothing more than a shell game where, either the emissions are produced in a large power plant before the car is recharged, or the environmental implications aren't taken into account throughout the entire process of power production (like how the nuclear power industry always seems to forget about the storage of spent rods for thousands of years).

We own a 100% electric car that is 100% powered by solar panels on our roof. My wife hasn't been to a gas station in 6 months.

I think it is important to develop an understanding of the entire ecological impact of the entire power production chain... but I am a big believer in "renewable" versus "single use" sources of energy.
 
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